I actually,[b] love [/b]this idea. That being said, I have read some of the arguments against it and could offer a few suggestions...
[i]For me personally (I can't talk for others on this), I'd use it for my older dragons that have been with me for so long, I can hardly imagine exalting them. That being said, many of them I'll probably never breed and their worth mostly consists of personal attachment and lore.[/i]
Many said that a hibernation/storage den could be exploited and I have to agree. Right now, from what I've read, the main penalty is that: [quote]...you will be able to remove them from the Hibernation Den to rejoin your active dragons, but a period of time will need to pass before they can hibernate again.[/quote] and of course, that you can't breed them / use the coliseum whilst there.
As the plan is right now, people could mass store their dragons and take them straight out and begin breeding some more or exalt them, so it'd act as a temporary storage for mass buying rather than the showcase I think you guys are after.
[b]Honestly, I feel this is a little too lax and should be made a little more punishing (?).[/b]
In addition to the timer after removing them, how about making a timer in order to remove them? E.g., you have to [i]wait x many days for them to leave the storage [/i]and then x number of days to return them.
This would also [i]reset all nesting timers[/i] (could even be a longer timer than usual). If the player's lair becomes full at any point during the hibernating dragon's removal timer, you could make it stop and have to be manually restarted again.
[quote] This storage system would allow your dragons to hibernate, retaining their current apparel, familiars, and biographies, allowing you to share and collect them. [/quote]
This is perfect, like I said, these are dragons that have a personal value but offer little advantage in the long run. This means dragons that have lore, art etc...
This would make the current lair storage stay valuable and should help with the money sink problem. People can't just mass exalt and any breeding dragons will have to stay in the dragon lair... at least, if you plan on breeding them any time soon. There would be very little advantage to storing the dragons this way.
You could even create a fee for the removal of each dragon, nothing extortionate, but that over time will create a steady sink of treasure too.
Not to say more dragon lair space is a bad idea, but I actually like the sound of this feature. Pretty sure people are going to tear this apart and dissuade the admins (such as shame) but this is just my two cents [s]or pence for me I suppose[/s]!
I actually,
love this idea. That being said, I have read some of the arguments against it and could offer a few suggestions...
For me personally (I can't talk for others on this), I'd use it for my older dragons that have been with me for so long, I can hardly imagine exalting them. That being said, many of them I'll probably never breed and their worth mostly consists of personal attachment and lore.
Many said that a hibernation/storage den could be exploited and I have to agree. Right now, from what I've read, the main penalty is that:
Quote:
...you will be able to remove them from the Hibernation Den to rejoin your active dragons, but a period of time will need to pass before they can hibernate again.
and of course, that you can't breed them / use the coliseum whilst there.
As the plan is right now, people could mass store their dragons and take them straight out and begin breeding some more or exalt them, so it'd act as a temporary storage for mass buying rather than the showcase I think you guys are after.
Honestly, I feel this is a little too lax and should be made a little more punishing (?).
In addition to the timer after removing them, how about making a timer in order to remove them? E.g., you have to
wait x many days for them to leave the storage and then x number of days to return them.
This would also
reset all nesting timers (could even be a longer timer than usual). If the player's lair becomes full at any point during the hibernating dragon's removal timer, you could make it stop and have to be manually restarted again.
Quote:
This storage system would allow your dragons to hibernate, retaining their current apparel, familiars, and biographies, allowing you to share and collect them.
This is perfect, like I said, these are dragons that have a personal value but offer little advantage in the long run. This means dragons that have lore, art etc...
This would make the current lair storage stay valuable and should help with the money sink problem. People can't just mass exalt and any breeding dragons will have to stay in the dragon lair... at least, if you plan on breeding them any time soon. There would be very little advantage to storing the dragons this way.
You could even create a fee for the removal of each dragon, nothing extortionate, but that over time will create a steady sink of treasure too.
Not to say more dragon lair space is a bad idea, but I actually like the sound of this feature. Pretty sure people are going to tear this apart and dissuade the admins (such as shame) but this is just my two cents
or pence for me I suppose!
I'm a proponent of them coming out of hibernation with full breeding cooldowns and having a wait period before they can be removed from hibernation. Other cooldowns that prevent their immediate exaltation or sale might also be worth speculating on. A fee for putting them into hibernation is also good--if you never intend to breed or Coli them again, it's a negligible outlay to get a lair space back permanently.
(In fact, that might be the way to calibrate the fees for hibernating dragons--have them scale based on lair expansion costs such that you pay approximately the cost of one more lair slot if you were expanding your Hibernal Cavern like you would your lair. So your first five dragons in there are quite cheap, but when you get up into the 90s you're paying dearly to store more dragons.)
I don't like the idea of penalizing people for happening to have a full lair while they've got dragons hibernating; I don't think it's necessary to control the edge case of people storing their entire lairs for mass fodder buys, given every other possible penalty (like cooldowns) that can be imposed.
I'm a proponent of them coming out of hibernation with full breeding cooldowns and having a wait period before they can be removed from hibernation. Other cooldowns that prevent their immediate exaltation or sale might also be worth speculating on. A fee for putting them into hibernation is also good--if you never intend to breed or Coli them again, it's a negligible outlay to get a lair space back permanently.
(In fact, that might be the way to calibrate the fees for hibernating dragons--have them scale based on lair expansion costs such that you pay approximately the cost of one more lair slot if you were expanding your Hibernal Cavern like you would your lair. So your first five dragons in there are quite cheap, but when you get up into the 90s you're paying dearly to store more dragons.)
I don't like the idea of penalizing people for happening to have a full lair while they've got dragons hibernating; I don't think it's necessary to control the edge case of people storing their entire lairs for mass fodder buys, given every other possible penalty (like cooldowns) that can be imposed.
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Or maybe dragons removed from hibernation could have an "exalting cooldown" ie you can't exalt them for... one week, two weeks, etc after removing them from storage. This could help prevent it from just being used as a dump truck for fodder.
Or maybe dragons removed from hibernation could have an "exalting cooldown" ie you can't exalt them for... one week, two weeks, etc after removing them from storage. This could help prevent it from just being used as a dump truck for fodder.
I have a question - was it said how it will be done? Perhaps the slots would have to be bought too...
For all that was written, using it to store all your permas sounds more useful to the player as not every perma is a coli dragon yet everyone (named) show up in the queue and eat; fodder exists in lair for far shorter time and don't even need to be fed from hatching to be exalted in the first adult day, so I do not think fodder on their own will be an issue. Hatchlings that will grow-up in lair to become fodder perhaps, same as adults that might become one-time parents.
However, I do like timers - animals hibernate for set times, not randomly after all - even though the fodder issue doesn't seem to be as big as it is made right now.
I have a question - was it said how it will be done? Perhaps the slots would have to be bought too...
For all that was written, using it to store all your permas sounds more useful to the player as not every perma is a coli dragon yet everyone (named) show up in the queue and eat; fodder exists in lair for far shorter time and don't even need to be fed from hatching to be exalted in the first adult day, so I do not think fodder on their own will be an issue. Hatchlings that will grow-up in lair to become fodder perhaps, same as adults that might become one-time parents.
However, I do like timers - animals hibernate for set times, not randomly after all - even though the fodder issue doesn't seem to be as big as it is made right now.
As an additional comment since it ticked over in my brain and RedWillia mentioned it--the people who hoard fodder to sell en masse already have lots and lots of empty lair space, so discouraging them from fridging all their dragons to raise a little more fodder probably does not need to be very high-priority.
As an additional comment since it ticked over in my brain and RedWillia mentioned it--the people who hoard fodder to sell en masse already have lots and lots of empty lair space, so discouraging them from fridging all their dragons to raise a little more fodder probably does not need to be very high-priority.
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I think the idea of resetting the breeding cool down is a great idea! ALL of these point are great! I totally support this!
I think the idea of resetting the breeding cool down is a great idea! ALL of these point are great! I totally support this!
I think it is super important to address the potential issues for this, but like so many others, I am very excited for this feature! I'm a G1 collector and I have a lot of dragons whose sole purpose is just to be pretty... they serve no purpose other than that.
I think resetting the breeding cool-down is an excellent suggestion to prevent this feature from being abused. I also think that having cool downs on adding/removing dragons will help immensely to prevent abuse.
That being said, while there should definitely be safeguards on this feature, I'm not sure if adding a fee is the best route to go. I think adding fees (especially fees that increase exponentially) defeat the fundamental purpose of the feature. I think many people want hibernation to save on treasure by not having to feed (read as: pay for the existence of) dragons that aren't serving a purpose or interacting with other features on site.
If a fee is added and it's higher than the cost of feeding dragons on a daily basis, there's not a huge draw on using the feature. This is especially true following the update from staff where all dragons in a player's lair are automatically fed after the player is gone for so many days (45, I think?). There is definitely a need for treasure sinks on site, but I don't think this is the best place.
First of all, we do not know how many storage spaces they are giving us to begin with, and whether more slots are need to be bought and how much, so it's a bit early to say they'll have a lot more spaces to store for exploitation.
Secondly, this is from my own pov and how I would be using the storage: if more cooldown time is added or for longer (like a few weeks before they can be taken out and another few weeks to put them back in), I'd like to at least be able to edit their bio when they are in storage. Nothing else. That's the only interaction with those dragons that I feel is important when they are in storage, and if it means I need to spend a few months just to update their bio it'd really be a killer for me or any lore lair. It's just another thing they need to think about before they finalize the details of this feature, not just trying to prevent exploitation.
First of all, we do not know how many storage spaces they are giving us to begin with, and whether more slots are need to be bought and how much, so it's a bit early to say they'll have a lot more spaces to store for exploitation.
Secondly, this is from my own pov and how I would be using the storage: if more cooldown time is added or for longer (like a few weeks before they can be taken out and another few weeks to put them back in), I'd like to at least be able to edit their bio when they are in storage. Nothing else. That's the only interaction with those dragons that I feel is important when they are in storage, and if it means I need to spend a few months just to update their bio it'd really be a killer for me or any lore lair. It's just another thing they need to think about before they finalize the details of this feature, not just trying to prevent exploitation.
Wow guys, thanks for all the comments and feedback!
[Url=http://pearlcatcher.tumblr.com/post/123474911747/the-lil-horizontal-line-things-i-use-in-this-bio][img]https://78.media.tumblr.com/e6fb8937eef42fce8dd5b4933dbddcad/tumblr_inline_nr4pc22Akn1rpihm9_400.png[/img]
@Plagueheart When I said the full lair part, I meant in connection to a hibernation timer. So something like this:
[i](User) has 15 dragons in a lair with just as many slots. They have one dragon in hibernation. Because they want to pull said dragon out of hibernation, they exalt one of the lair ones, leaving 14/15 slots taken and then start the timer. It takes x number of days for the hibernating dragon to join the lair, so in the meantime (User) buys an exalt dragon to sell before the end of timer, bringing the lair to 15/15 again. The hibernating dragon's timer would stop and the extra 15th dragon exalted before it can be restarted.[/i]
Basically, just to make removing a dragon from the lair something you have to plan with your game play, not just do on the fly. Only a little something really. xD
[Url=http://pearlcatcher.tumblr.com/post/123474911747/the-lil-horizontal-line-things-i-use-in-this-bio][img]https://78.media.tumblr.com/e6fb8937eef42fce8dd5b4933dbddcad/tumblr_inline_nr4pc22Akn1rpihm9_400.png[/img]
@Churrell Oooh, I like this idea! Yeah, that was the sorta thing I was going for.
[Url=http://pearlcatcher.tumblr.com/post/123474911747/the-lil-horizontal-line-things-i-use-in-this-bio][img]https://78.media.tumblr.com/e6fb8937eef42fce8dd5b4933dbddcad/tumblr_inline_nr4pc22Akn1rpihm9_400.png[/img]
@IllusiveFox Thank you for the awesome support and kind words!
[Url=http://pearlcatcher.tumblr.com/post/123474911747/the-lil-horizontal-line-things-i-use-in-this-bio][img]https://78.media.tumblr.com/e6fb8937eef42fce8dd5b4933dbddcad/tumblr_inline_nr4pc22Akn1rpihm9_400.png[/img]
@RedWillia I'm afraid not much was explained about the mechanics of it (unless I've missed something), here's what it said in the news:
[quote]Secondly, there will be an additional storage area called the Hibernal Den. Over the years, we have seen lots of desire for a place to showcase and store dragons you love, but don’t plan on having interact with the rest of the site all the time (i.e. breeding, coliseum, trading, etc.) and more importantly, not depleting your food stores or averaged clan energy. A type of “dragon gallery” or “dragon vault”, if you will. The Hibernal Den would be a place to move dragons you still want to keep, but don’t plan on using for gameplay in the near future. This storage system would allow your dragons to hibernate, retaining their current apparel, familiars, and biographies, allowing you to share and collect them. Of course, you will be able to remove them from the Hibernal Den to rejoin your active dragons, but a period of time will need to pass before they can hibernate again.[/quote]
So erm, the terms 'vault' and 'gallery' suggest at least a few slots, but we don't know how many yet. Many even they haven't decided? Not too sure...
[Url=http://pearlcatcher.tumblr.com/post/123474911747/the-lil-horizontal-line-things-i-use-in-this-bio][img]https://78.media.tumblr.com/e6fb8937eef42fce8dd5b4933dbddcad/tumblr_inline_nr4pc22Akn1rpihm9_400.png[/img]
@Cirrostratus I am also pretty excited, I really hope they implement this! When referring to fees, I meant more a one-time per dragon payment to remove the dragons from the hibernation chamber (each time). I personally feel a daily treasure fee would be a little much and would defeat the point too. A weekly or monthly one [i]could[/i] work, but I am not so sure. I was thinking something along the lines twice/three times the treasure you'd get from exalting them (similar in ways to the new function of reversing exalting but without a time limit).
[Url=http://pearlcatcher.tumblr.com/post/123474911747/the-lil-horizontal-line-things-i-use-in-this-bio][img]https://78.media.tumblr.com/e6fb8937eef42fce8dd5b4933dbddcad/tumblr_inline_nr4pc22Akn1rpihm9_400.png[/img]
@hat17 Admittedly, I hadn't even thought of the editing bit... kind'a took that for granted, oops? I would definitely recommend the admins to make it possible to edit apparel or bios, not sure how it would affect things, but I'd agree that it's pretty important.
As for the exploiting part, this post is mainly because I've seen many comments against the hibernating feature and this was a sort of counter/compromise where I'm trying to suggest adaptations to keep everyone happy... perhaps an impossible task, but I'm giving it a shot!
Wow guys, thanks for all the comments and feedback!
@Plagueheart When I said the full lair part, I meant in connection to a hibernation timer. So something like this:
(User) has 15 dragons in a lair with just as many slots. They have one dragon in hibernation. Because they want to pull said dragon out of hibernation, they exalt one of the lair ones, leaving 14/15 slots taken and then start the timer. It takes x number of days for the hibernating dragon to join the lair, so in the meantime (User) buys an exalt dragon to sell before the end of timer, bringing the lair to 15/15 again. The hibernating dragon's timer would stop and the extra 15th dragon exalted before it can be restarted.
Basically, just to make removing a dragon from the lair something you have to plan with your game play, not just do on the fly. Only a little something really. xD
@Churrell Oooh, I like this idea! Yeah, that was the sorta thing I was going for.
@IllusiveFox Thank you for the awesome support and kind words!
@RedWillia I'm afraid not much was explained about the mechanics of it (unless I've missed something), here's what it said in the news:
Quote:
Secondly, there will be an additional storage area called the Hibernal Den. Over the years, we have seen lots of desire for a place to showcase and store dragons you love, but don’t plan on having interact with the rest of the site all the time (i.e. breeding, coliseum, trading, etc.) and more importantly, not depleting your food stores or averaged clan energy. A type of “dragon gallery” or “dragon vault”, if you will. The Hibernal Den would be a place to move dragons you still want to keep, but don’t plan on using for gameplay in the near future. This storage system would allow your dragons to hibernate, retaining their current apparel, familiars, and biographies, allowing you to share and collect them. Of course, you will be able to remove them from the Hibernal Den to rejoin your active dragons, but a period of time will need to pass before they can hibernate again.
So erm, the terms 'vault' and 'gallery' suggest at least a few slots, but we don't know how many yet. Many even they haven't decided? Not too sure...
@Cirrostratus I am also pretty excited, I really hope they implement this! When referring to fees, I meant more a one-time per dragon payment to remove the dragons from the hibernation chamber (each time). I personally feel a daily treasure fee would be a little much and would defeat the point too. A weekly or monthly one
could work, but I am not so sure. I was thinking something along the lines twice/three times the treasure you'd get from exalting them (similar in ways to the new function of reversing exalting but without a time limit).
@hat17 Admittedly, I hadn't even thought of the editing bit... kind'a took that for granted, oops? I would definitely recommend the admins to make it possible to edit apparel or bios, not sure how it would affect things, but I'd agree that it's pretty important.
As for the exploiting part, this post is mainly because I've seen many comments against the hibernating feature and this was a sort of counter/compromise where I'm trying to suggest adaptations to keep everyone happy... perhaps an impossible task, but I'm giving it a shot!
I don't really understand why people can't just use their hibernal dens however they want. If they want to use it as a couple extra fodder spaces, how is that harming the site?
I don't really understand why people can't just use their hibernal dens however they want. If they want to use it as a couple extra fodder spaces, how is that harming the site?
It takes
Twelve Years for one Imperial pair to produce a Primal-eyed offspring of a specific sex. Goal-based breeding is dead.
