I had an idea (while in the shower, as all ideas begin) about dragons without any element. I think this would be a neat feature, with lots of lore potential!
I call them 'Empty' Dragons, but it's a name I'm not super attached to. They would be obtained by using an item (same as you would use a boon) on a nest, or hatching a special egg (Unhatched Empty Egg? Unhatched Hollow Egg? They wouldn't be obtainable from Bog/Noc eggs, though)
Coliseum-wise, they would definitely be strange, but perhaps workable into specific builds. They would have no advantages, resistances, or weaknesses, but also are unable to use any elemental magic. They could only use element-neutral skills, like contuse, eliminate, etc.
Now, what would their eyes look like? Well, I played with the idea of empty sockets, but that'd be kind of boring to have a bunch of identical eye types, so I decided to work with variations on these flat, featureless eyes, shades of white/grey/black. The primal eyes are the only ones with a genuinely hollowed-out look, since primal eyes tend to dip more towards the horror spectrum anyways. Here are my mockups!
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/439872816117055508/556982147123118113/empty_common.png[/img]
Empty Common
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/439872816117055508/556982134699720724/empty_uncommon.png[/img]
Empty Uncommon
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/439872816117055508/556982139539685385/empty_rare.png[/img]
Empty Rare
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/439872816117055508/556982129611898901/empty_unusual.png[/img]
Empty Unusual
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/439872816117055508/556982113753235460/empty_dark.png[/img]
Empty Dark Sclera
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/439872816117055508/556982125488898050/empty_glowing.png[/img]
Empty Glowing
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/439872816117055508/556982121248456715/empty_facet.png[/img]
Empty Faceted
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/439872816117055508/556982117985419264/empty_multi.png[/img]
Empty Multi-Gaze
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/439872816117055508/556982109835624449/empty_primal.png[/img]
Empty Primal
My only concern is that some of them look like ice eyes, but I figured, like... Some eye types already look alike. Like, Plague Unusual looks like an Earth or Shadow eye, so I guess it's fine for some similarities.
What are your thoughts? I'd love to hear them!
[b]EDIT:[/b] A few suggestions from within the thread that I like!
[LIST]
[*]It's not something dragons are born with, and is instead like an elemental blocker that is equipped like a battlestone and changes the appearance of the dragon's eyes
[*]The dragons are unbreedable and, lore-wise, are like zombies. [s]Would especially be fun to have on Imperials in that case[/s]
[*]Linking it to the new lore about magical instability around the dragon world. Element-less dragons were once unable to exist, but now due to all of the shifting and changing, some can exist under specific circumstances.
[*]Empty dragons would likely be in very ill-health their whole lives.
[*]The Shade could potentially be a part of the process? Like the Shade blocks a dragon's egg from receiving elemental magic, instead receiving the eldritch void energy the Shade has. (Dragons would not be controlled by the shade as that contradicts lore, simply corrupted by it)
Anyways, a reminder to please be civil! The mods have spoken, and we should respect that and stop bickering. I'm open to criticism--just be polite!
[/LIST]
I had an idea (while in the shower, as all ideas begin) about dragons without any element. I think this would be a neat feature, with lots of lore potential!
I call them 'Empty' Dragons, but it's a name I'm not super attached to. They would be obtained by using an item (same as you would use a boon) on a nest, or hatching a special egg (Unhatched Empty Egg? Unhatched Hollow Egg? They wouldn't be obtainable from Bog/Noc eggs, though)
Coliseum-wise, they would definitely be strange, but perhaps workable into specific builds. They would have no advantages, resistances, or weaknesses, but also are unable to use any elemental magic. They could only use element-neutral skills, like contuse, eliminate, etc.
Now, what would their eyes look like? Well, I played with the idea of empty sockets, but that'd be kind of boring to have a bunch of identical eye types, so I decided to work with variations on these flat, featureless eyes, shades of white/grey/black. The primal eyes are the only ones with a genuinely hollowed-out look, since primal eyes tend to dip more towards the horror spectrum anyways. Here are my mockups!
Empty Common
Empty Uncommon
Empty Rare
Empty Unusual
Empty Dark Sclera
Empty Glowing
Empty Faceted
Empty Multi-Gaze
Empty Primal
My only concern is that some of them look like ice eyes, but I figured, like... Some eye types already look alike. Like, Plague Unusual looks like an Earth or Shadow eye, so I guess it's fine for some similarities.
What are your thoughts? I'd love to hear them!
EDIT: A few suggestions from within the thread that I like!
- It's not something dragons are born with, and is instead like an elemental blocker that is equipped like a battlestone and changes the appearance of the dragon's eyes
- The dragons are unbreedable and, lore-wise, are like zombies.
Would especially be fun to have on Imperials in that case
- Linking it to the new lore about magical instability around the dragon world. Element-less dragons were once unable to exist, but now due to all of the shifting and changing, some can exist under specific circumstances.
- Empty dragons would likely be in very ill-health their whole lives.
- The Shade could potentially be a part of the process? Like the Shade blocks a dragon's egg from receiving elemental magic, instead receiving the eldritch void energy the Shade has. (Dragons would not be controlled by the shade as that contradicts lore, simply corrupted by it)
Anyways, a reminder to please be civil! The mods have spoken, and we should respect that and stop bickering. I'm open to criticism--just be polite!
No support because this goes against canon.
A dragon cannot live without an element. It would literally die.
No support because this goes against canon.
A dragon cannot live without an element. It would literally die.
[quote name="Sopheroo" date="2019-03-17 16:33:21" ]
No support because this goes against canon.
A dragon cannot live without an element. It would literally die.
[/quote]
As interesting as it sounds, according to lore, culled from Q&A's, a dragon cannot be without an element.
If a dragon lays eggs on elementless lands, they will not hatch until they are returned to elemental lands. If a dragon depletes their store of magic, they will likely die (they could become VERY very weak instead).
Sopheroo wrote on 2019-03-17 16:33:21:
No support because this goes against canon.
A dragon cannot live without an element. It would literally die.
As interesting as it sounds, according to lore, culled from Q&A's, a dragon cannot be without an element.
If a dragon lays eggs on elementless lands, they will not hatch until they are returned to elemental lands. If a dragon depletes their store of magic, they will likely die (they could become VERY very weak instead).
@
Sopheroo The canon is constantly expanding and said item which allows for the obtaining of dragons in this hypothetical could have an explanation why they can survive--or maybe something explaining that they're
barely surviving and are in honestly terrible health.
I am open to suggestions.
@
Sopheroo The canon is constantly expanding and said item which allows for the obtaining of dragons in this hypothetical could have an explanation why they can survive--or maybe something explaining that they're
barely surviving and are in honestly terrible health.
I am open to suggestions.
I'm not sure how this would fit in lore.
To be honest, there are a few things that feel like they could be elements, but aren't actually elements, in the runestones game.Things like like 'time', or 'Mind'. I wouldn't mind a dragon element is 'all of these unaligned elements/concepts', as I personally appreciate/enjoy the idea of a 'jack of all trades, master of none' option.
Perhaps instead of having no element, it has no defining element? For example, the egg comes from border regions, where there were too many elements to lock it to a specific element/deity. So the eyes have no defined color, and the dragon has no defined elemental magic/advantages tied to that magic.
I'm not sure how this would fit in lore.
To be honest, there are a few things that feel like they could be elements, but aren't actually elements, in the runestones game.Things like like 'time', or 'Mind'. I wouldn't mind a dragon element is 'all of these unaligned elements/concepts', as I personally appreciate/enjoy the idea of a 'jack of all trades, master of none' option.
Perhaps instead of having no element, it has no defining element? For example, the egg comes from border regions, where there were too many elements to lock it to a specific element/deity. So the eyes have no defined color, and the dragon has no defined elemental magic/advantages tied to that magic.
@
Jemadar Fair point, but I figured the lore gap could be filled with whatever new lore that comes about from the hypothetical update that adds the empty dragons. Like maybe the elemental magic is sucked out of them, or the Shade is somehow involved... Who knows? I personally like the idea of the Shade getting their grubby claws on some dragons, lore-wise. It'd be fun for villainous characters in lore, or perhaps tragic heroes.
@
Jemadar Fair point, but I figured the lore gap could be filled with whatever new lore that comes about from the hypothetical update that adds the empty dragons. Like maybe the elemental magic is sucked out of them, or the Shade is somehow involved... Who knows? I personally like the idea of the Shade getting their grubby claws on some dragons, lore-wise. It'd be fun for villainous characters in lore, or perhaps tragic heroes.
[quote name="Grimalkind" date="2019-03-17 16:38:55" ]
The canon is constantly expanding and said item which allows for the obtaining of dragons in this hypothetical could have an explanation why they can survive--or maybe something explaining that they're barely surviving and are in honestly terrible health.
[/quote]
Support because of this statement.
Lore doesn't need to be so specific, it can expand wildly.
A lot of clan lore people have already goes against specific rules but that doesn't stop anybody, why should it stop this?
Grimalkind wrote on 2019-03-17 16:38:55:
The canon is constantly expanding and said item which allows for the obtaining of dragons in this hypothetical could have an explanation why they can survive--or maybe something explaining that they're barely surviving and are in honestly terrible health.
Support because of this statement.
Lore doesn't need to be so specific, it can expand wildly.
A lot of clan lore people have already goes against specific rules but that doesn't stop anybody, why should it stop this?
I really love your image examples...
Official lore could always change, or there could be a way to incorporate it that would be mindful of the lore :D
I really love your image examples...
Official lore could always change, or there could be a way to incorporate it that would be mindful of the lore :D
The thing is, there is a vast difference between player lore and site lore. Site lore should NOT go against itself more than it has to. There are times when things cannot be explained through site lore or almost has to go against site lore (selling dragons through the AH even though they are sentient creatures), but those instances should be few.
Player lore can incorporate as little or as much of site lore as the player wants.
Also, there isn't a lore gap right now. We already know that dragons cannot be without an element, and I believe that they have said that dragons cannot become shade touched (that one is iffy, I vaguely remember something about it, but cannot remember the exact details, so I may be remembering wrong).
Again, go wild with personal lore as it is an interesting concept, but site lore is a completely different concept than personal lore. Just as a good author should stick to their own lore and not contradict themselves or their lore, so should good games. That has, however, never stopped fanfiction authors from completely changing everything about the universe.
The thing is, there is a vast difference between player lore and site lore. Site lore should NOT go against itself more than it has to. There are times when things cannot be explained through site lore or almost has to go against site lore (selling dragons through the AH even though they are sentient creatures), but those instances should be few.
Player lore can incorporate as little or as much of site lore as the player wants.
Also, there isn't a lore gap right now. We already know that dragons cannot be without an element, and I believe that they have said that dragons cannot become shade touched (that one is iffy, I vaguely remember something about it, but cannot remember the exact details, so I may be remembering wrong).
Again, go wild with personal lore as it is an interesting concept, but site lore is a completely different concept than personal lore. Just as a good author should stick to their own lore and not contradict themselves or their lore, so should good games. That has, however, never stopped fanfiction authors from completely changing everything about the universe.
@
jemadar I meant 'lore gap' in the sense of the contradictions this new feature would cause. It'd be like the eye update. The reason why there weren't multi-gaze dragons before, for example, is because the magical calamity which caused them was recent. It'd be something similar here, potentially. Dragons used to need an element, or couldn't be shade-touched, but something has changed and now they can.
@
jemadar I meant 'lore gap' in the sense of the contradictions this new feature would cause. It'd be like the eye update. The reason why there weren't multi-gaze dragons before, for example, is because the magical calamity which caused them was recent. It'd be something similar here, potentially. Dragons used to need an element, or couldn't be shade-touched, but something has changed and now they can.
