Suggestions

There's no need to ping me.

May we please have some method of getting new eyes (ALL new eyes current and future) on our old dragons through hard work?

It's been a year since eyes types were released, and many players are still feeling frustrated that their beloved, irreplaceable dragons cannot enjoy this new feature to its fullest. This can include progens, G1s, special dates, special IDs, special lineages, rare combinations, gift dragons, lore dragons, or any and all special sentimental dragons.

These dragons cannot be rebred. Period. Even trying to is an epic quest of un-fun proportions--especially if it winds up requiring unsanctioned nest rentals. The frustration is further compounded if a brand new eye type comes out that would be even better only for it to be barred on old dragons through some mechanic or another.

Galore is an awesome first step, but he is only a first step. Going forward, all future players are still stuck out of luck on getting goat for their special dragons. As are existing players who might acquire more special dragons 1 year, 5 years, 10 years from now.

Galore also has the downside of being account-bound. This is leading people to unsanctioned dragon lending. It poses a problem that if I, for example, don't want any goat eyes in my lair but instead want three facet, I can't just sell goat to buy facet. Three possible solutions would be to allow Galore vials to be sellable, to have an on-site method for dragon lending, or to periodically re-release Galore vials every so often.

Other solutions that can work instead of or hand-in-hand with is allowing players to earn vials through various on site mechanics. Primal could be a Coli drop during festivals, Multi could be in Baldwin (even during a limited time), Facet could be a Swipp trade. Galore could give two vials, and then for a short amount of time players could earn more on site. Or players could earn more on site without Galore giving any free.

Any and all natural eyes (current and future, even ones that seem to be implied in the announcement post) could be purchase-able. Goat, Facet, Multi, and Primal could go in the gem shop at increasing prices (with Primal being no less than than 1000 gems). Uncommon, Unusual, and Rare (and any future tint-only changes) could be in the Marketplace for treasure. If that's too reliable, then these items could even cycle like the coatl and wildclaw scrolls do.

And if that's still too reliable, alternate scattervials could be made. For example, a scattervial could scatter between uncommon, unusual, and rare (at a ratio of 3:2:1) or a new vial could be created that would hold all the current and future eye types with new types being added in as they're made.

Or, if FR wants to be truly random, there could be a scattervial that scatters between ALL eye types, natural and unnatural, current and future. I feel, that in exchange for such randomization (especially if it's as skewed as the current scattervial), it should always be obtainable.

Another method that has been suggested has been transferring eye types. For example, I currently have a fodder dragon with Goat eyes. Say I have a perma dragon with common. I could give the fodder dragon common and the keeper dragon goat. This mechanic needs fleshing out, so it might result in a new NPC in the trading post and/or a high cost of items, currency, and/or time. (Someone else outline such an idea here: https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/sug/2969020/1 )

A "lab ray" like feature has also been suggested.

Also, it's been suggested that there could be an item that increases the odds of nests hatching with certain eyes.

I know some people have voiced concern that eye vials could cut into their sales. However, individual eye vials have a completely different market. A player looking to buy any primal eyed dragon isn't going to care about the primal vial since it would be so expensive; it'd be cheaper to breed a primal eyed dragon. However, a player with a precious perma dragon isn't looking to buy any random primal off of the AH; that person is only interested in working hard to put primal on the keeper dragon. It's two different markets and both can coexist.

I'd also like to stress, and I cannot stress enough, that this is not for free. Apart from a couple tokens thrown our way by Galore, we want to be able to put in effort to obtain our dream eyes. This is not about being easy or lazy or anything else. This is about the model FR has ran on since the beginning: players putting in effort to obtain their dream dragons' aesthetics.

This also would not decrease "specialness" in any way as all natural eyes would still be obtainable through breeding. Player A could still feel the thrill of hatching a multi even if Player B works hard, spends weeks leveling up a cauldron, earns all of the materials, and pays a significant fee to brew multi. And if Player A is sullen that Player B worked hard and feels like B rains on A's fun...well, that is A's choice, but it doesn't seem wise to me to allow someone else's hard work negatively impact A's enjoyment of a game.

EDIT/ADDITION: A new idea is that, depending on how Adventure mode works, where it is in development, and when it will be released, but dragons could go on quests to change their eye type. It could involve some combination of doing X activities in Adventure mode, beating a certain number/type of Coli enemies, finding certain items, perhaps paying a fee, participating in Baldwin or Swipp or Joxar, playing a certain game in the Fairground...whatever. Once embarked, the dragon has # of tasks to fulfill, depending on the targeted eye type. When those tasks are fulfilled, the dragon changes eyes (but not elements).

SECOND ADDITION: During the course of conversation, it came up that exalting dragons could lead to individual eye vials. This could either be through the much desired exalt shop. Or through dragons possibly leaving behind a vial of their eye type when exalted. The pro all around is that this increases exalting. The downside, especially with the last one, is that it's double RNG. One such variation on this method is explained here (though it's not the only variation).

A further expansion on this idea includes using the dragons' levels to determine the likelihood of a vial drop, started here: https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/sug/2685458/148#post_46315681

THIRD ADDITION: With the revelation of some type of Coli Shop and/or rewards for PvP in the Coli, individual eye vials could be put there. The benefit of eye vials in a Coli Shop is that players are unlikely to need only one. They're going to keep coming back to get more for their perma dragons since eye type is non-inheritable.

FOURTH ADDITION: A new idea came up for a new feature. An NPC reflecting pool where one dragon per account a day can look into the pool. This could result in an item, a witty message, or an eye type change. It's possible that players could purchase additional glances in the pool. For example, a second glance is 50,000 treasure, a third glance is 100,000 etc. This idea has been discussed here.

FIFTH ADDITION: It has also come up that eyes could work as a fourth gen, with every aspect of what that means. For more information on this suggestion, see here.

If you want to see a different thread with the various solutions emphasized in detail on the first page, please check out here.

So, tl;dr? The eye situation is a frustrating mess. Fortunately, there are solutions.

I also support alternative methods, as I am not a fan of the way the game is currently heading. Today, it's eye types that cannot be applied to our old dragons. Next month, it's going to be ancients that are locked out of apparel. While the latter has very good reasons for not being able to use apparel, what does this mean for the future of the game? What slippery slope are we heading down?

I really enjoy FR over other games BECAUSE of how much control I have over my dragon's aesthetics, and being locked out of one of these features that, by all rights, should follow the same formula as everything else, does NOT feel good.

It doesn't matter if it takes me a long time to earn the ability to change the natural eye type on existing dragons. It doesn't matter if it costs me an arm and a leg to earn the ability to change the natural eye type on existing dragons.

Just let me SOMEHOW have the ability to change the natural eye type on existing dragons that isn't a clan-bound or retired item that are going to be nearly impossible to obtain in the future.

I'm going to go ahead and repost something from another thread to underline why I support alternate methods for Natural eye types besides the current system. tl;dr under the current system I feel the type of gameplay being encouraged is frustrating and unreasonable to ask of the playerbase. I 100% support alternate methods [i]in addition to[/i] the current system. The current system doesn't have to go anywhere, but it would be very, very welcome to have an alternative that doesn't involve me getting up to 70 (!) dragons for a breeding project. [quote=SparkyLurkdragon] The seeming disregard for older players and older dragons has been and is my largest and longest-lasting frustration with the whole eye business, but even newer players and dragons feel like they're getting a raw deal under the current eye system. I have an Imperial Primal breeding project in the works, and currently my plan is to: 1.) Get 16 unrelated dragons 2.) Take a Flight Change vacation 3.) Get at least two unrelated breeding pairs in the exact colours I want 4.) Pump out a ton of identical hatchlings until I either get Primal or get up to 35 breeding pairs 5.) If the latter then I'll have a constant stream of nothing but Obs/Vermillion/Avocado Imperials until I get a male Primal, considering Imps' breeding cooldown and my five nests. That is 70 dragons. And the odds are so poor that this could still be a years-long project even after I get 35 pairs. That seems... like an excessive thing to push your players to do, to me? But it's the kind of play that's being encouraged by the current eye system, and the vast majority of players are not going to be that patient. Frankly, they shouldn't have to be. If a cycling release struck the right balance, then potentially I'd still go through with the above plan so I could Primal several of my oldies and do the breeding project while I wait out the "cooldown" between vial releases. It would make me more likely to go for special eye types in general. I would like to customize my dragons on this website about customizing dragons.[/quote]

I agree with this.

As I have said in many other threads and many times already, there are some dragons that are irreplaceable.

Progens are literally irreplacable, because they have special mechanics attached to them. (I know some people have gen1 progens because they didn't like their originals, but I am not talking about those). If you progen is special to you, you cannot just 'breed another' because it wouldn't be a progen. It wouldn't even be a gen1.

Special ID dragons literally cannot be rebred. There will never be another dragon with the ID 272727 (just pulled out of my head) so that dragon can literally never be rebred, or rehatched.

Gen1s are very hard to replace, especially with specific combos, because you have to get the eggs, in the right element, and then hatch them unitl you get that combo again and hope you get the right type of eyes with it.

Dragons hatched on certain dates cannot be rehatched. May 22, 2019 will only come once. If you have a dragon that was hatched on that date (and yes that is today) for a special reason, it cannot be rebred.

Dragons that have sentimental attachments can't be rebred. I cannot rebred a dragon that looks like Elua that has the same meaning as she does. She was given to me when I first joined and she was already level 25 and had eliminate. I have even scattered her.

Dragons hatched on certain days are very difficult to rebreed. Imagine wanting a dragon hatched on your birthday and it requires a specific color AND natural eye type. It could be literally years before you get one, especially if it is a rarer eye type.

Beyond that, there is another issue. Right now, your dream dragon might have primal, because that matches what you want the most. However, tomorrow, the site could come out with a new natural eye type that is even more perfect than primal. With the two free vials we will get from this point forward, that isn't as much of a problem as it was, but it can still be a problem if you have several dragons you want the new eye type on.


There are many ways to do it, and many of them have been suggested.

A lab ray type feature would be a great treasure sink, while making the vials separate and available in different ways would be a great item sink (primal through joxar, multi through baldwin, and faceted through swipp.).

Putting them in the gem MP would bring in money for the site.

Making them so they are only available once a year would keep their rarity somewhat intact.

I personally don't care how it is done, just as long as it is something that isn't a one time deal (ie get two vials and that is it).

Support, as always!

FR had always advertised itself as a site where you could work towards and customize your perfect dragons. In fact, I joined FR (and have been here since it opened in June 2013) because of that customization! It didn’t have all of the pure-RNG gambling like lots of other games had. Sure, you can hatch G1 eggs, use Scatterscrolls, and breed pairs with wide ranges and a variety of genes- but those are options.

If you really wanted, say, an Abyss Python/Cerulean Shimmer/White Smoke female Skydancer with Ice eyes, you could breed for (or buy) parents within a similar colour range, and work your way closer to your goal. If you don’t want to have to buy the right genes or breed change for your project, you can work to breed those in, too! It might take longer, but it’s doable. You can narrow down the amount of RNG you want to deal with, bar sex, which is 50:50.

Now, if you wanted that dragon with Ice Primal eyes... You have to rely on horrible 0.5% hatch odds, plus cooldowns, any possible colour RNG, and the 50:50 sex ratio. Imagine finally seeing your dream dragon come from your nest, after 1.5 solid years of breeding!! ... but it’s male and you wanted a female.

Additionally, you’d either have to already be in Ice, move to Ice for an indefinite period of time (possibly paying 1500g in the process), or risk unsanctioned nest rentals for an indefinite period of time. That might be fun for a few people, but it’s immensely frustrating for many others. It turns breeding projects from something you can work towards to a pointless RNG waiting game of cooldowns and terrible hatch chances. :c


Eye vials would allow people the fun of hatching random eyes and let people fulfill new projects and touch up old dragons. The two can coexist! Since the update, I’ve hatched 1 Primal (from a G1 egg, even!), and got 1 Faceted dragon from my favorite breeding pair. It was super exciting to see both of them!!

But I still want eye vials. Getting a cool surprise when breeding doesn’t diminish my (or other players’) wants for having different Natural eyes on their dragons. I have a few dragons and projects that I want specific tints on- not even the ultra-special eyes- but I can’t even get those without resorting to expensive, retired Scatterscrolls or praying to the RNG on a nest.


Someone who wants Water Rare on their 4-year-old Coli fighter isn’t going to care that somebody else is selling a Water Rare dragon on the AH. Someone who simply wants a Light Primal dragon isn’t going to want to fork over a ton of cash for a Primal vial from the MP/AH; they’re way more likely to buy a nice Primal for 40kT on the AH.

And of course, there are people who will do both! The fact that I can buy a Cherub scroll in the MP doesn’t mean I’m not going to buy Cherub dragons from the AH. If I want a new dragon, it’s cheaper to just buy one on the AH than spend 185kT on a scroll. But if I wanted Cherub on my random progen, for example, being able to buy Cherub dragons on the AH... doesn’t help me, haha. I’ll have to save up and buy a scroll instead.

Furthermore, since eyes don’t pass down through breeding, it’s not like someone giving a dragon Multi-Gaze is going to flood the market with Multi-Gaze babies. It’s not like how I can give a breeding pair Constellation and make a ton of Constellation babies. Eye vials apply exclusively to the dragon they’re used on— if I want more Multi-Gaze dragons, I’ll either have to buy more from the AH, save up for more vials, or get lucky with an egg hatch.

[quote] Next month, it's going to be ancients that are locked out of apparel[/quote] Thanks for the reminder; I knew I'd forget something with my initial post. Concerning ancient dragons--we have no idea at all how they will work with eye types. All we can do is speculate. And a lot of this speculation leads to un-fun answers. 1) Will ancient dragons have eye types? Or will they have a single eye type period with no options for more? If they only have a single eye type, then this whole discussion is moot on them. However, it's a very real possibility they will have eye types as well--which leads to question 2 and 3. 2) Will the eye types be the same as modern dragons? If this is the case, then I would assume when we breed change from ancient to modern and back, the dragon will retain its eye types. However, that still leaves us in our current pickle as all new ancient dragons will still be locked out of eye types, and breeding for ancient dragons with certain eyes got a lot harder since they can only breed with themselves. 3) Will ancient dragons have unique eye types to each specie just like how ancient dragons and genes (seem to) work? This is a HUGE question. Because it would imply ancient dragons eyes would work like ancient dragon genes--if I change a modern dragon to ancient or vice versa, the dragon's eyes would be reset to common. This puts a MASSIVE demand on dragons to need individual eye vials--if only to regain the exact same eyes they once had. It also puts players in a very unpleasant spot. Beloved Dragon A would look GREAT as a wyvern; however, it has rare heart-shaped eyes. Does the player give up the rare eyes to make Dragon A a wyvern? It'd be forcing players to pick between breed and eye type--and we already will have to pick between genes, wearing apparel, and breed. IMHO, we don't need the heartache of eye types into that mix as well. 4) If ancient dragons have eye types unique to them (like they will genes), then could this also mean modern dragons could have eye types unique to them? For example, maybe modern dragons could have White Sclera unique to them. Or an eye type called Pastel. Or an eye type called Defined Pupil where the pupils are clear and less blurry. Or even Heart (which is suggested on another thread.) These eyes wouldn't be available to ancient dragons but only modern dragons. And if they are, then all the more reason for players to want individual eye vials--because perhaps Player X would breed a lovely dragon as an ancient, only to find out the dragon would make an awesome Skydancer. So X is willing to breed change that dragon AND completely re-gene it, but might want to put a unique-to-modern eye type on it. Now, a lot of these are speculation--and maybe the problem won't even be there when ancient dragons get released. But it is a fact ancient dragons will add a new (complicated) dimension onto FR that WILL impact eye types. And most of the questions I see concerning ancient dragons and eye types implies all the more that we really need individual vials for eyes or regular scattervials or some type so we can adapt old dragons to new eye types. This is ESPECIALLY true if dragons have their eye type set to common when switched between ancient and modern. (Or even ancient and ancient? Does anyone remember if changing a dragon from one ancient to another will also reset its genes? In which case, it's a possibility that the same will be true about eye types, which means we really, really need some way to get those lost eye types back.)

I'm going to throw in my support as well.

I see no reason to lock old dragons out of getting the natural eye types. Customization of dragons is such a large part of how Flight Rising has advertised itself. You have all these apparel and genes, these things that can be applied to dragons that existed before them.
And then you get to natural eye types.

Sure, players could compare the lack of eye customization to being unable to choose a dragon's colours (aside from everyone's first progen). But the solution to the new colourwheel was Scatterscrolls.
-Scatterscrolls are available all year round in the Gem MP.
-Scatterscrolls have an equal chance to give any colour in each slot on a dragon.

One the other side we have the Vial of Scattersight.
-Scattersight was available for 3 days threw rough coli grinding and brewing.
-Scattersight had chances based on the rarity of each Eye Type. Primal was incredibly rare compared to the other types, at I believe less than 1% chance of getting it.

"New lore came out when eye types were introduced, it explains why only new dragons can get them!"
Lore can develop further though, that's the beauty of it. Dragonkind could put in effort to research ways of harnessing the magic that causes natural eye types so that older dragons can obtain them. I mean, we already have some vials for unnatural eye types. It's not that far-fetched.

What's the lore for dragons being able to slap on a scroll and randomizing their colours? There isn't any, as far as I know. Staff simply decided back during the colourwheel expansion that old dragons would have a constant chance at new colours. But eye types seem to be a different story which has left me very confused. I do apologize for going on, but I feel like even just a new vial of scattersight that doesn't get retired (and perhaps with less varied chances between eye type rarities), would be better than nothing.

I will always support alternate methods as the OP suggests. I too am frustrated that I can't get, say, primal eyes for my progens without spending a fortune on scattervials, unless I use something like a clanbound vial and if we only get two of those once every blue moon I have to make some tough decisions about who gets it, and my progens can't leave my account (nor am I comfortable with letting any of my dragons leave my lair) so I can't send them over to someone's lair who might be willing to let me use their clanbound vials. So having options besides/in addition to Galore: good, I support.

I will support this every time it comes up. I want to put more time and potentially even money into the site if you'll just give me a reason to. I'm a huge fan of the DeadBattery vial thread but any of Gema's suggestions would work just as well.