General Discussion

:( I don't want to post anywhere someone who knows me or my teacher will see but I need advise.
I have been friends with an art teacher at a nearby studio for about 3yrs now. (but have only been going for about 2, I didn't go for almost a whole year because outside stress issues made it hard to walk in.)

My art teacher is a very nice person and I do not want to give the wrong impression of her.
She is a good hearted lady and means well, which is part of the reason why this is hard.
She is also a good teacher, and I want to stress that. She has helped me out of good will in the past.

But.
I love to draw mostly wildlife, occasionally domestic animals.
And once in awhile some fantasy creatures.

My art teacher loves modern, surrealism, and abstract.
In regards to realism she teaches it but says "I could do it but I just have no interest in it."
She's an older lady between her 50's-60's so she's oldschool and set in her ways.

We have had issues before...

It started with my speed. I was working on a pastel piece for either the first or second time in my life and she went on a 15 to 20 min lecture on how I will never be able to make money as an artist because I am too slow. I can't remember the exact size of the piece but it was probably like 18x something of a giraffe's head. So it wasn't tiny and I was still getting used to the medium. I think it took me 20 something hours. I was having issues with work at the time and at home so I couldn't take the criticism at the time and I went to the bathroom to cry it out when I had the chance. I came out non-chalant but my eyes were red and she knew even though I tried to play it off. First thing she said was something like "how are you ever going to handle the real world yada yadda." Before I told her I was having problems elsewhere in my life at the time. Then she was consoling and stopped. But it did dig at me how she could say that to me. :/
And still does, very often.
*EDIT*
(I will also say I have talked to another professional artist about it and she said speed basically shouldn't be any concern as rushing it takes away from the finished piece which should be the main goal. And every other successful artist I know that works with colored pencil, like I usually do says its mostly about the layers and taking time on it not rushing.
Yet my art teacher says things like "maybe this time you can do 3 layers instead of 5" and "You need to be fast to be commercial.")

There has been other similar things but I don't want to write a book I just need help with the now so I will jump to it.

I finished a deer drawing recently
It has butterflies in its antlers.
I made the focus butterfly, the largest one, a dark but bright fiery orange almost red with some yellows closer to the body of the insect with black stripes.
Let alone the fact it was at the very edge of the antler out more from the deer than a majority of the butterflies.
She flipped.
She somehow thought the colors of the butterfly (which were almost neon) would somehow conflict with the tan/yellow/brown of the antlers.... ?
And went on and on about how I shouldn't have done that.
I should not have put even a single orange butterfly on that deer because
deer are mostly brown.
I am sure that typical "monarch" colors are what comes to mind for most people when we think of butterflies yet among all these different butterflies I was somehow supposed to know not to put a single orange one in there.

I put a smaller one on the ear made it blue and pink. It was too small and she did not like it one bit. She wanted all the butterflies to be as big as the orange one. In reality that orange butterfly is nearly as big as two female sized hands. Most butterflies just aren't that big and I wanted the fiery one to be the focus, so only two others are close to it's size, and the little butterfly stayed little.

And yet for some reason she insisted my reference PHOTO didn't look realistic. o__o
The photo looks about end of fall cloudy and cold but it does look real I mean its a photo of a real deer. She didn't like his color and wanted me to come look on google as she searched deer and pointed at all the pretty orange spring and summer coats.
She obviously had a preconceived notion that they were this color all the time.
I explained to her that their coats change colors with the season and that the one in the reference had a winter coat that is why he's not so bright and more of a grey brown.
And besides wouldn't the deer coat compete with the butterflies if I made him more reddish?
She remarked about a winter coat and butterflies not being in winter, disregarding the fact I was drawing exotic butterflies from Africa and Asia and glob knows where else on a whitetail anyway... its not exactly based in a RL scenario and more on whimsy.
She finally agreed to keep his greyish coat like the reference.

This type of thing continued all the way to when I put my signature on the piece. I always put my initials and the middle of a light scribble. She asked "Why did you do it like that?"
"I always have."
Why didn't you put it in the corner? I would not have put it there.

I explained that I put it closer to his chest rather than in the far corner to prevent people from cropping it off. She replied pushing "Oh but there are other ways and they can still remove it."
At this point how is that even relevant?
I agreed but said that not everyone knows how or is willing to go to much more effort than to crop it off, this is just to defend against that.
She starts to go on and on again about how OH they can get rid of it no matter what I do and that if I really wanted to prevent that I need to use watermarks or sign my name in the deer.
I agreed but kept insisting that I was only trying to stop cropping as a minimal defense in this case. It was ridiculous and she wasn't listening. I got fed up and said well its too late now its already on there to end the topic. XD

Now she wanted me to do a series with this deer....
I suggested maybe doing a doe and fawn to go with it and she was like yeah and maybe you could have bright green bugs like grassoppers to go on their heads wouldn't that be cute? O____O.... Butterflies are one thing but I don't want to draw bug infested deer as a series...

I should mention that once before when I mentioned doing a picture of a baby seal popping through the ice to the supersize of a baby polar bear, I was shot down and told that instead I should do a picture of a pair of penguins and a polar bear "holding hands" ......yeah.

After the deer I decided to do a natural scene with bears instead of making a series from the deer/butterflies... with babies not bugs or anything weird. (nothing against bugs themselves, they look great on plants and things but if you cover an animal in them it can look more like a weird infestation than a pretty natural thing depending on the subject matter lol)

I brought a sketch of a mother bear on her back nursing her babies. I hadn't seen any art depicting that before so I thought it was a good idea.
I got to class only to sit and listen to my art teacher lecture me about how I don't have a style and that I need to find one otherwise my art was going to get lost among all the other wildlife art out there. Despite it being brought up by another student that a style is something you build over time, my art teacher pushed that yes but if someone doesn't have one they need to find it.
As in like, now.
I've been doing art since I was 11 and I'm in my twenties and while I won't brag on being "great" I will say I'm not bad and that I have sold art and have done a few commissions.
I'm pretty sure I have a style already. And was honestly kinda offended.

But I figured it couldn't hurt to find a way to stand out a bit more,
I tried to take her advise.
So I looked at wildlife art I liked, most of them have elaborate environmental backgrounds.
My art teacher said "But look how long that must have taken."
And "Do you really want to compete with them?" (in regard to the backgrounds)
I said "No not now, but maybe in the future, I'd like to learn to do backgrounds like that."
I think she nearly scoffed. :/

She started to point at modern RAINBOW almost abstract painted animals.
I have nothing against that art, I think its beautiful, but its not what I like to create most of the time. I like realism.

She said these are a style I could do.

I explained that I don't do that I like realism that modern isn't what I want to do.
But I get her point. Or so I thought.

I showed her an example of beautiful highlighted fur/hair and detailed foregrounds with faded or blurred simple backgrounds. To all of my examples she said but how will you do this differently so that it doesn't look like their art?

How were my examples different from hers? It would be in my style and I wouldn't "copy" their art I would just use the highlighted technique with detailed foregrounds and faded backgrounds. How is that different from her suggesting I do splotchy rainbow animals???

She went on with suggestions like how about you always do big moons in the background as your style?
I pointed out that then I would always have to have a moon in every drawing...
She said now you could also have a big round sun.
-.-' I explained that I don't want to be locked into drawing something
that MUST always have a sun or moon in it as my "style".

She continued suggesting things like how about always doing black and white but coloring the eyes?
I use colored pencil why would I avoid coloring?
I love that part I explained. It's fine once in awhile to do a piece like that but not something I want to make as my style and do all the time.

Then she goes, well how about a brightly colored background or just white?
I looked at her and said; all the time? e~e Noo....

I LIKE WILDLIFE ART. I couldn't get it through. :C

I suggested simple earthy backrounds, she said "but that is still traditional."

I showed her an example of a wolf that had a simple but earthy colored background.
And said "this is something I would hang in my house, not this." and I then pointed to a modern rainbow wolf pic. She said the opposite and that she preferred modern; and I said well we have different taste.

And I guess it all chalks up to that.

Mind you there was another student an older woman who (while painting a realism landscape herself) sided with my teacher and first also suggested I drew rainbows! Then suggested that if I wanted to attract "green people" as she put it that fought for animals I should draw bears with trashcans and garbage as a message (LOL) I quickly pointed out "Yeah but would you want to hang that in your house?" she said that if the "green people" were my target audience that they might. (wouldn't "green people" which I guess I am, want animals in their most natural state???)
My art teacher got onboard with the idea even though it wasn't MODERN and was like "yeah you could draw a beach with seagulls and then some plastic on the beach. It wouldn't take away from the pretty beach but people would be like HEEEEY there's plastic!"

Need I say more?.... :C

This whole round and round thing went on for 10 minutes away from being 2 hours until I literally got up and left class.
I didn't even get to draw anything. She was so busy lecturing me she barely taught the rest of the class...
As I got up to leave she suggested I put a squirrel on the mama bear's knee or some small animal looking up in the corner. Or a turtle ON HER CHEST among the babies... srsly.
We settled on a turtle upside down in the corner as if the babies had finished playing with it as what might happen naturally..... Why there HAD to be another animal among a momma bear with 3 cubs is beyond me.

I don't even want to start on it anymore to be honest though....
I have to go in later today and I'm dreading it and I shouldn't feel this way
but I know she is going to be pushing her own agenda/opinions on me again and I just
don't want to do it....
I feel like she is no longer building me up in a direction I have potential and passion in.
And is instead kinda holding me back/bringing me down a bit.

I'm so confused and frustrated.
Any advise on maybe taking a break without hurting her feelings?
I still need to pickup my deer so I have to show up, but I don't know if I want to stay or what.


TL;DR My art teacher loves modern and doesn't seem to like the wildlife realism I'm interested and she keeps pushing her opinion on me to be a kind of artist I am not, to the point I want to take a break, how can I do this without hurting her feelings as she is a good person and no doubt means well?

@LunarMyst

Honestly, I've never liked art classes in general. I took a painting class years ago, and that's when I came to terms with the fact that I hate doing still-lifes(sp?). But that's most of what we would paint, until I got fed up and just said, "I'm going to paint what I want to, not this." And I did. And I liked it. The teacher, of course, made remarks on how I painted, but for the most part, she was just a guiding hand in my work.

I also went to maybe two drawing classes. I got bored very easily, even though I knew what I wanted to learn, and the teacher helped me, although not always in the way I wanted. He was good, too, though.

I guess I just don't like being told what to draw, haha. But I'm sorry you are having to go through this. Having your creativity limited is never a good thing.

//pats

TBH, the reason why I never went into art studies and went for science instead, was because I have a hard time standing how people (like your art teacher) try to present something so subjective as art like it's something exact like rocket science. Of course, something like anatomy, color theory, perspective, yeah, those things are important to know, to know how to make an appealing picture, but beyond that it's all Subjectiveland.

I've never been to an Art class outside of school, so I'm not sure what they're like but I do have experience with teachers who firmly believe in one 'style' and disregard what their pupils' preferences are.

Just for some quick background, my Art teacher (let's call him Blue) can't always take my class because his Higher Photography class comes at the same time as us. Obviously, he can't take both classes at once and the Higher class are more important so we get stuck with another teacher (let's call her Red) on those days.

I apparently have a very distinctive style when it comes to traditional art and I almost never use reference photos unless I'm drawing something I've not drawn before. I normally draw wildlife, particularly canines, while most members of my class like still-life.

Now Blue is very supportive and says that I can stick with what I prefer to draw and my style. On the other hand Red criticises everyone in the class, particularly me. She believes that a real artist always uses a reference photo and that still-life is much better to draw, she even once said to me that since we're young we can't be considered artists.

I know that people say "respect your elders" and "well she's your teacher so obviously she's right" but that doesn't work for me anymore. Firstly, she's not my teacher so it's none of her business. Secondly, it's one thing to tell me what I can improve on, it's another to say to my face that I'm not an artist and I should be drawing the same as everyone else. Most people in my class don't care about passing Art exams, but Art is a part of my life and has been since I was young.

That's my rant over, I could go on about an Art teacher I used to have but I don't have the time right now.

@NightFuryScream

Yes exactly. She helps in lots of ways, and I have grown as an artist partially because of her and I am grateful. But now I feel like I just don't want instruction, atleast not all the time.
It would be one thing if she was pointing me in the direction I wanted to go in, but she just isn't and so I feel its not a very good fit for me to be her student if she doesn't even like the gnere
I'm trying to learn.
I need a break but I don't know how to break the break to her per-se without sounding like an entitled brat and hurt her feelings lol. Thanks.


@Niverdia

T~T I agree! She told me as I was drawing the deer mentioned above that I have to ALWAYS draw the eyeball/iris before I draw the shape of the eyelids.... ? For example.
That type of thing drives me nuts and I don't want to be disrespectful since its her class, but I usually just get silent and stare at the paper like.... why?.... And do it my way anyhow if it doesn't make sense and she doesn't know the difference.
It's frustrating that I have to filter so much of what she says. Like with me not having a style.
I have to say okay well I KNOW that isn't true, but maybe I meet her half way and try to stand out a bit more?
I just wish she TRIED to listen to me and understand a different perspective.
I would never look at her for example and tell her I think she should be doing
realism when I know she loves surrealism/abstract/modern. There is room for both.
I'm just trying to be respectful about taking this break without sounding like I'm
"mad" at her or don't like her or something like that. Thank you for understanding.


@UlvDakota

I imagined your teachers as pokemon trainers with the red and blue reference haha.
My favorite subjects are canid's too. <3
That is bull for her to say that to you WOW why do so many art teachers have a hard time
leveling with their students? I'm sorry. :(
I can relate though in a way, while she would never say that I'm not an artist, she treats me like a child and as I said before I'm in my twenties. She likes to talk over me and completely disregard everything I say as if everything is just spouted nonsense. I have to repeat myself a bajillion times and sometimes she still doesn't get it. :C

Glad you had one supportive teacher.

Yes that is partially why I asked for help, I understand its her class and she's the teacher and I don't want to be a disrespectful student and disagree with everything she's trying to teach me going round in circles all the time, it's kinda disruptive to the rest of the class, and what's the point of it anyway? That is why I think I need to take a break. She can quit arguing pointlessly with me and teach the others there. I feel like she's especially hard on me, though. :/ She's gone over the line many times and I have had to stand my ground more than once here as of late especially.
I know she means well and wants me to get better but she just misses the point that we have very different taste and my passion and potential is in a totally different direction than what she's trying to push me in. I just need a way to tell her without hurting her feelings.

I will check that out, thanks for the pointer in a good direction.

@Zodivan

@LunarMyst

I feel for you, I really do. My mother is a professional artist, and works at home. She also teaches art classes to people, she drums up a good bit of business. But if she started acting like your art teacher, then a good amount of people would be out the door. Art is meant to be a relaxing experience, not a constant clash of personalities. A variety of different mediums and styles should be embraced in order to find out what YOU are best at,and from there your personal style can develop.
It's a shame, you've said this woman is kind hearted, but at the end of the day, she's cramping your true style. You could tell her a white lie if you're truly stuck for a way to tell her, like telling her you're saving money for something important, and currently can't afford to take lessons anymore.

Your teacher, while a nice lady, knows nothing of how things work nowadays. My old HS teacher would take DAYS on his pieces, because for him, the journey of making the piece was he art and the end product was what was left to show for it.

My friends and I who took his class often joke about it, but I always think of his words when I'm doing something - "Add more layers" and "Make a series"

More layers means exactly what it sounds like. Give depth to your piece, even if in the end certain parts will not be seen. The way you arrive at a piece is just as important as the end piece itself. (which is why rushing is never a good idea)

Make a series means, if you find something you like, in your case wildlife, you will end up as prolific as a 'fast' artist because you love what you are doing and you do it a LOT. Make everything a series! People will be able to spot your work easily!

For instance, just a week or two ago, my friend and I were talking past a small gallery on the street of a busy tourist spot in town, and we both stopped, and went "Hey! I know that Mark Twain!" and when we asked the lady working there, sure enough, it was my art teacher's work! xD

If you like wildlife, do so many studies and pieces on them until your room is literally filled with works, then your teacher can't say anything. :p

@LunarMyst

I know she's probably very nice but you need a different teacher. Find one more suited to your style! She's a tad too set in her teaching methods and you're taking her criticism a tad too personally.
Your styles are clashing and it's affecting your work! I don't like seeing a good artist suffer because their too afraid to step forward and say that it's just not working. Different students with different styles could work but you can't limit yourself like that ):
She's your friend, I'm sure she would understand.
Good luck either way.