Non-binary reasons? | General Discussion

Before I begin, I'm not trying to be hurtful at all. I'm just curious as to what other people are up to.

So, you know there are the people who don't feel either male or female and want to be referred to as 'they' or whatever pronoun they want? I want to know why these people feel the way they do. I can understand why you would feel you are better off as the opposite gender or even a mixture of the two, but seriously? No gender? What would make you feel that way? Also, as for the binary trans people, they sometimes feel that way because of personality reasons, but others feel that their body is not right for them. For people who don't feel like they are either gender, is it because you are not comfortable with the idea of having male or female parts? Or is it because you don't feel your personality fits with society's roles of 'male' or 'female'? Non-binaries and knowledgeable people, take it to you.

Jadefinch

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June 28, 2016 19:41:51

Before I begin, I'm not trying to be hurtful at all. I'm just curious as to what other people are up to.

So, you know there are the people who don't feel either male or female and want to be referred to as 'they' or whatever pronoun they want? I want to know why these people feel the way they do. I can understand why you would feel you are better off as the opposite gender or even a mixture of the two, but seriously? No gender? What would make you feel that way? Also, as for the binary trans people, they sometimes feel that way because of personality reasons, but others feel that their body is not right for them. For people who don't feel like they are either gender, is it because you are not comfortable with the idea of having male or female parts? Or is it because you don't feel your personality fits with society's roles of 'male' or 'female'? Non-binaries and knowledgeable people, take it to you.

@bluparrot

Hey there! Non-binary person here.

I personally label myself as non-binary because I simply don't fit the looks / roles / mentality of just males or just females. My mind and body is ultimately androgynous, and it have been that way since my youth. (Even when I was younger, I honestly didn't care what pronouns I was given and didn't really conform to a certain gender's expectations, which ultimately led me to identify as neither.)

As far as discomfort with my body: sure, I've had dysphoria, but I'm definitely not uncomfortable enough to consider myself transgender. I am very happy with my body now, but being labeled as male or female just feels...alien?

Hopefully that helped a little.

Macaroonis

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June 28, 2016 19:54:07

@bluparrot

Hey there! Non-binary person here.

I personally label myself as non-binary because I simply don't fit the looks / roles / mentality of just males or just females. My mind and body is ultimately androgynous, and it have been that way since my youth. (Even when I was younger, I honestly didn't care what pronouns I was given and didn't really conform to a certain gender's expectations, which ultimately led me to identify as neither.)

As far as discomfort with my body: sure, I've had dysphoria, but I'm definitely not uncomfortable enough to consider myself transgender. I am very happy with my body now, but being labeled as male or female just feels...alien?

Hopefully that helped a little.

@bluparrot Genderfluid, which I'm told fits under the nonbinary label, so...

I just don't... feel male or female? And being Genderfluid, I know exactly what it feels like to actually feel masculine, or feel feminine. It's not a case of 'I don't know what I feel like', it's just kind of a void between the two. I don't even know how to describe it. But "male" or "female" is just too... absolute, when I don't actually fit into either. It's not even a case of "I feel like both, so it's easier to say that I'm neither", it's just straight up "I don't have any gender today". Which I guess makes sense when you think that we're probably the only creature that has a sense of 'Gender'.

I don't know, that's just me personally.

GallifreySkaro

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June 28, 2016 20:02:59

@bluparrot Genderfluid, which I'm told fits under the nonbinary label, so...

I just don't... feel male or female? And being Genderfluid, I know exactly what it feels like to actually feel masculine, or feel feminine. It's not a case of 'I don't know what I feel like', it's just kind of a void between the two. I don't even know how to describe it. But "male" or "female" is just too... absolute, when I don't actually fit into either. It's not even a case of "I feel like both, so it's easier to say that I'm neither", it's just straight up "I don't have any gender today". Which I guess makes sense when you think that we're probably the only creature that has a sense of 'Gender'.

I don't know, that's just me personally.

@bluparrot

Hello, non-binary person here! Before I begin, I want to clarify something: non-binary is often considered an umbrella term; people who are non-binary only feel that they are somewhere outside of the gender binary (male or female; masculine or feminine). So this can include a whole host of people, including those who do not feel that they are any gender - agender people. And, non-binary people are often (but not always) also labeled under the trans umbrella - because often non-binary individuals do transition to whatever gender or gender expression suits them best. They may take steps to correct their physical form, or they may not.

Many do use the 'they' singular pronoun, which is perfectly acceptable in the English language. There have been reports of singular, non-gendered pronouns in the English language since the 1800s (fun fact, singular, non-gendered 'they' was in use in the 1700s! Then in the 1800s, some circles went to 'he' being a gender-neutral singular pronoun, before reverting back to 'they').

The reason as to why non-binary and agender people feel the way they do can be for a variety of reasons. It can be like how a trans person feels - that they were born with the wrong biological markers, or that their body does not represent their inner feelings, or that they don't want *insert gendered body part here* and wish they had the other biological body's parts instead. Every person is going to feel differently! Sometimes, it can be for rather personal reasons that the non-binary person in question isn't comfortable answering.

For me, personally, a lot of my feelings stem from the fact that I do not feel like I fall in either a feminine body or a masculine body. So, for me, it does stem from the idea of gender roles and my personal distaste for them. I am simply more comfortable at neutral. There are days where I wish I had a more masculine body, or a more feminine one, but most days it's a resounding 'meh' about the whole idea of gender in general. (Think of it as, instead of a line with blue on one side and pink on the other, with no colors in-between, the gender spectrum is more like FR's color wheel!)

If you're curious about learning more, I can direct you here: http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Main_Page ; some of the links there might help answer your questions better than any one person could!

Ren86

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June 28, 2016 20:26:22

@bluparrot

Hello, non-binary person here! Before I begin, I want to clarify something: non-binary is often considered an umbrella term; people who are non-binary only feel that they are somewhere outside of the gender binary (male or female; masculine or feminine). So this can include a whole host of people, including those who do not feel that they are any gender - agender people. And, non-binary people are often (but not always) also labeled under the trans umbrella - because often non-binary individuals do transition to whatever gender or gender expression suits them best. They may take steps to correct their physical form, or they may not.

Many do use the 'they' singular pronoun, which is perfectly acceptable in the English language. There have been reports of singular, non-gendered pronouns in the English language since the 1800s (fun fact, singular, non-gendered 'they' was in use in the 1700s! Then in the 1800s, some circles went to 'he' being a gender-neutral singular pronoun, before reverting back to 'they').

The reason as to why non-binary and agender people feel the way they do can be for a variety of reasons. It can be like how a trans person feels - that they were born with the wrong biological markers, or that their body does not represent their inner feelings, or that they don't want *insert gendered body part here* and wish they had the other biological body's parts instead. Every person is going to feel differently! Sometimes, it can be for rather personal reasons that the non-binary person in question isn't comfortable answering.

For me, personally, a lot of my feelings stem from the fact that I do not feel like I fall in either a feminine body or a masculine body. So, for me, it does stem from the idea of gender roles and my personal distaste for them. I am simply more comfortable at neutral. There are days where I wish I had a more masculine body, or a more feminine one, but most days it's a resounding 'meh' about the whole idea of gender in general. (Think of it as, instead of a line with blue on one side and pink on the other, with no colors in-between, the gender spectrum is more like FR's color wheel!)

If you're curious about learning more, I can direct you here: http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Main_Page ; some of the links there might help answer your questions better than any one person could!

Ren || They/Them || FR +2 || Rarely Plays

@bluparrot yo, recently discovered nonbinary here! From what I can tell ( this is just a personal thing but it might be applicable in other cases) the gender binary can be a bit restricting for some, especially once you start detaching meaning from the concept of explicitly gendered items. In some nondysphoric cases, non-binary identification can just be a different form of personal expression for those who feel they can't encompass their gender with a solid binary label! (I myself feel that rather than just having a set binary of options to slide across, gender should be a fully customizable experience, but that's just me lmao)

Also, there are some people (intersex people) who already born a mix of the two, so based on their feelings, they may feel to identify as such!

Plus there are plenty of plant and animal species out there that don't entirely conform to the standard ideals of male and female (think about animals like slugs, hyenas, clownfish, whiptail lizards, seahorses, platypi, etc) so honesty the whole idea of a solid gender binary sounds like something only humans care about, especially as there's so many different mixes of chromosomes, hormones and privates that any human could end up with that it seems an odd coinkydink that humans tried to mass it all together as just two groupsMKAY ENOUGH RAMBLING

tldr: binary is too restricting, biological sex makes no sense anyway.

saintlesbian

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June 28, 2016 21:06:18

@bluparrot yo, recently discovered nonbinary here! From what I can tell ( this is just a personal thing but it might be applicable in other cases) the gender binary can be a bit restricting for some, especially once you start detaching meaning from the concept of explicitly gendered items. In some nondysphoric cases, non-binary identification can just be a different form of personal expression for those who feel they can't encompass their gender with a solid binary label! (I myself feel that rather than just having a set binary of options to slide across, gender should be a fully customizable experience, but that's just me lmao)

Also, there are some people (intersex people) who already born a mix of the two, so based on their feelings, they may feel to identify as such!

Plus there are plenty of plant and animal species out there that don't entirely conform to the standard ideals of male and female (think about animals like slugs, hyenas, clownfish, whiptail lizards, seahorses, platypi, etc) so honesty the whole idea of a solid gender binary sounds like something only humans care about, especially as there's so many different mixes of chromosomes, hormones and privates that any human could end up with that it seems an odd coinkydink that humans tried to mass it all together as just two groupsMKAY ENOUGH RAMBLING

tldr: binary is too restricting, biological sex makes no sense anyway.

@bluparrot [quote]For people who don't feel like they are either gender, is it because you are not comfortable with the idea of having male or female parts? Or is it because you don't feel your personality fits with society's roles of 'male' or 'female'? Non-binaries and knowledgeable people, take it to you.[/quote] I'm comfy with what I have (female parts), and I don't tend to care about society roles :3 A lil more in-depth: I consider myself agender, because I don't really care abut my gender, and if I think about it too often, then I feel like I wouldn't mind being called pronouns other than feminine (although feminine is one that I have as a default). Eh...i'll edit in the morning...late night ramblings r not fun

FenVyrus

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June 28, 2016 21:26:56

@bluparrot

Quote:

For people who don't feel like they are either gender, is it because you are not comfortable with the idea of having male or female parts? Or is it because you don't feel your personality fits with society's roles of 'male' or 'female'? Non-binaries and knowledgeable people, take it to you.

I'm comfy with what I have (female parts), and I don't tend to care about society roles :3
A lil more in-depth: I consider myself agender, because I don't really care abut my gender, and if I think about it too often, then I feel like I wouldn't mind being called pronouns other than feminine (although feminine is one that I have as a default).

Eh...i'll edit in the morning...late night ramblings r not fun

Vyrus | Perpetually hungry | PM's/Friend Requests open

@bluparrot

I think that every person you talk to is going to give you a different reasoning.

For me, I'm genderfluid. There are days when I distinctly have a more female mind set and I will dress and act as such, other days when I feel more masculine, and days when I feel like I have one foot in each so to speak.

I prefer they/them pronouns devoid of gender because it's easier. From day to day my gender shifts, so it is literally easier to have people refer to me without gender just to avoid confusion when people cannot see my physical body and how I am choosing to represent myself that day.

I hope this helps you to understand some, and thank you for approaching this respectfully with a desire to understand instead of the negativity I have seen from some in the past.

Sigilmancy

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June 28, 2016 21:31:26

@bluparrot

I think that every person you talk to is going to give you a different reasoning.

For me, I'm genderfluid. There are days when I distinctly have a more female mind set and I will dress and act as such, other days when I feel more masculine, and days when I feel like I have one foot in each so to speak.

I prefer they/them pronouns devoid of gender because it's easier. From day to day my gender shifts, so it is literally easier to have people refer to me without gender just to avoid confusion when people cannot see my physical body and how I am choosing to represent myself that day.

I hope this helps you to understand some, and thank you for approaching this respectfully with a desire to understand instead of the negativity I have seen from some in the past.

@bluparrot Someone of non-binary gender means their dysphoria doesn't match female or male. Dysphoria meaning your brain telling you that you have the wrong parts on your body. (aka the thing that makes you trans). For example agender people don't want anyparts while bigender people want both. Like being transfemale or transmale, it isn't a choice.

AestheticFish

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June 28, 2016 21:45:07

@bluparrot Someone of non-binary gender means their dysphoria doesn't match female or male. Dysphoria meaning your brain telling you that you have the wrong parts on your body. (aka the thing that makes you trans). For example agender people don't want anyparts while bigender people want both. Like being transfemale or transmale, it isn't a choice.

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@bluparrot
I identify as agender and use they/them pronouns. I do experience some dysphoria relating to my body, though it's (mostly) limited to certain female parts and not all of them. I know that fully transitioning to have a male body would be wrong for me, but... having a completely female body hasn't exactly been great for me either.

Nothing other than agender seems to fit me or feel right to me. If I think of myself as anything else, it's just... wrong and the feeling I get from that can range from "well this isn't right" to... really bad self-loathing. I've never really felt like any specific gender, I don't know what that's even supposed to be like. I find it really confusing and I question my gender a lot, all I really know is that calling myself anything other than agender is wrong and being seen and treated as female makes me feel awful about myself.

Tserin

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June 28, 2016 22:03:56

@bluparrot
I identify as agender and use they/them pronouns. I do experience some dysphoria relating to my body, though it's (mostly) limited to certain female parts and not all of them. I know that fully transitioning to have a male body would be wrong for me, but... having a completely female body hasn't exactly been great for me either.

Nothing other than agender seems to fit me or feel right to me. If I think of myself as anything else, it's just... wrong and the feeling I get from that can range from "well this isn't right" to... really bad self-loathing. I've never really felt like any specific gender, I don't know what that's even supposed to be like. I find it really confusing and I question my gender a lot, all I really know is that calling myself anything other than agender is wrong and being seen and treated as female makes me feel awful about myself.

hatchery

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Last edited on Jun 28, 2016 22:04:14 by Tserin

bluparrot

Pretty much everyone above hit upon the main parts. I'm non-binary myself (agender in particular), but do not consider myself trans.

My reasoning, I feel, may be a bit wishy-washy. I don't have any disphoria per se, (there are certain things about my uterus that I could live without and well.. I've somehow managed to stop my biggest issue with it so heyyyy. Granted, I may be singing a different tune if that annoyance was still happening) but whatever issues I have don't feel.. intense(?) enough to call myself trans? I dunno, but for me it has a lot to do with self-perception.

I've considered myself cis for the majority of my life and for the most part didn't have an issue with it. Honestly though, it was just a matter of me following the path of least resistance. I have a feminine birth name, wear my hair long, and have soft features so it's rather difficult of me to be seen as anything else. However, there was a short period where I wore my hair very short (because it was summer yo). I look a lot more androgynous with short hair and under my work hat/uniform so every once in a while someone would call me 'sir' by accident. Of course, once I opened my mouth/saw my name tag they would be apologetic but like, it didn't matter at all to me whether someone called me a Ms/Mr or ma'am/sir so like, I considered maybe I wasn't as cis as I thought? (And for reals, they would be so apologetic I would feel bad cause apparently it's not very ~~normal~~ cis to not care about pronouns at all lol)

So yeah, spent a bit questioning myself. Am I cis? Am I not cis? This was also a time when the concept of non-binary identities/not having to subscribe to the gender binary was a very new thing for me so yo, mindblow. Also came across Vi Hart's video On Gender which I have very fond memories of so that helped to see that I was not totally weird.

So, uh, bottom line for me is that I consider myself non-binary with an emphasis on agender because I don't feel attached to the concept of gender at all. I don't, and have never, felt female. But neither have I felt male. However, I don't see myself as having a lack nor rejection of gender as the title agender may imply. It's more like.. a complete disassociation of the concept. Which is why I am totes fine with any pronoun (he/she/they, but not 'it' for reasons that have naught to do with gender, but more to my asexuality).

ErsatzLace

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June 28, 2016 22:06:08

bluparrot

Pretty much everyone above hit upon the main parts. I'm non-binary myself (agender in particular), but do not consider myself trans.

My reasoning, I feel, may be a bit wishy-washy. I don't have any disphoria per se, (there are certain things about my uterus that I could live without and well.. I've somehow managed to stop my biggest issue with it so heyyyy. Granted, I may be singing a different tune if that annoyance was still happening) but whatever issues I have don't feel.. intense(?) enough to call myself trans? I dunno, but for me it has a lot to do with self-perception.

I've considered myself cis for the majority of my life and for the most part didn't have an issue with it. Honestly though, it was just a matter of me following the path of least resistance. I have a feminine birth name, wear my hair long, and have soft features so it's rather difficult of me to be seen as anything else. However, there was a short period where I wore my hair very short (because it was summer yo). I look a lot more androgynous with short hair and under my work hat/uniform so every once in a while someone would call me 'sir' by accident. Of course, once I opened my mouth/saw my name tag they would be apologetic but like, it didn't matter at all to me whether someone called me a Ms/Mr or ma'am/sir so like, I considered maybe I wasn't as cis as I thought? (And for reals, they would be so apologetic I would feel bad cause apparently it's not very ~~normal~~ cis to not care about pronouns at all lol)

So yeah, spent a bit questioning myself. Am I cis? Am I not cis? This was also a time when the concept of non-binary identities/not having to subscribe to the gender binary was a very new thing for me so yo, mindblow. Also came across Vi Hart's video On Gender which I have very fond memories of so that helped to see that I was not totally weird.

So, uh, bottom line for me is that I consider myself non-binary with an emphasis on agender because I don't feel attached to the concept of gender at all. I don't, and have never, felt female. But neither have I felt male. However, I don't see myself as having a lack nor rejection of gender as the title agender may imply. It's more like.. a complete disassociation of the concept. Which is why I am totes fine with any pronoun (he/she/they, but not 'it' for reasons that have naught to do with gender, but more to my asexuality).

Last edited on Jun 28, 2016 22:51:36 by ErsatzLace