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TOPIC | Change description on Glamortail Hopper
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[item=Glamortail Hopper] The description of the Glamortail Hopper begins with [b]"these diminutive fish live in shallow puddles."[/b] The new Glamortail familiars are clearly based heavily on earthly betta fish. The idea that bettas can live and thrive in shallow puddles is a pervasive and unfortunate myth that helps perpetuate the related myth that fish can live in small fishbowls and vases and dirty water. While it is true that wild betta fish live in shallow water, the type of water they normally live in is far different than the sort of water invoked by the word "puddle," and those that end up in shallow puddles during the dry season frequently die. Betta fish live in expansive rice paddies in the wild and need several gallons of clean, warm water at minimum in long-term captivity. Unfortunately, due to the prevalence of the myth of "puddle dwelling" bettas, these fish are often mistreated and housed in woefully inadequate setups when kept as pets that lead them to premature and avoidable deaths. Even though the Flight Rising "Glamortail" is not the same as the earthly [i]Betta Splendens[/i], the connection that can be drawn between the two creatures is clear. As such, I would like to request that you tweak the description of the Glamortail Hopper to replace or remove this line in order to help slow the spread of this myth that causes real suffering and premature death to fish in the real world. Further information on the myth of puddle dwelling betta and sources detailing its negative effects: http://bettacare101.com/mythvsreality/ http://nippyfish.net/bettas-101/choosing-a-tank/ http://aquariadise.com/aquarium-spotlight-betta/ Edit: Swapping the word "puddle" for "pond" in the tooltip has been suggested and I support this change as a good way to keep the original intent of the tooltip without perpetuating a harmful myth. Edit 2: The goal here isn't to change the tooltip because I believe anyone will take this as their only care advice. The goal is to get it changed because it is one more place telling people that "bettas live in puddles," which is so prevelent that people are often more likely to believe bad care advice over proper asvice because "everyone else says they live in puddles." This is something that is widely believed because it is repeated so often, not because it is true. Also, whether it's exactly a betta or not, it looks a lot like one and a lot of people are drawing the connection. I understand that not everyone sees it, but a lot of people do.


The description of the Glamortail Hopper begins with "these diminutive fish live in shallow puddles." The new Glamortail familiars are clearly based heavily on earthly betta fish. The idea that bettas can live and thrive in shallow puddles is a pervasive and unfortunate myth that helps perpetuate the related myth that fish can live in small fishbowls and vases and dirty water. While it is true that wild betta fish live in shallow water, the type of water they normally live in is far different than the sort of water invoked by the word "puddle," and those that end up in shallow puddles during the dry season frequently die. Betta fish live in expansive rice paddies in the wild and need several gallons of clean, warm water at minimum in long-term captivity. Unfortunately, due to the prevalence of the myth of "puddle dwelling" bettas, these fish are often mistreated and housed in woefully inadequate setups when kept as pets that lead them to premature and avoidable deaths.

Even though the Flight Rising "Glamortail" is not the same as the earthly Betta Splendens, the connection that can be drawn between the two creatures is clear. As such, I would like to request that you tweak the description of the Glamortail Hopper to replace or remove this line in order to help slow the spread of this myth that causes real suffering and premature death to fish in the real world.

Further information on the myth of puddle dwelling betta and sources detailing its negative effects:
http://bettacare101.com/mythvsreality/
http://nippyfish.net/bettas-101/choosing-a-tank/
http://aquariadise.com/aquarium-spotlight-betta/

Edit: Swapping the word "puddle" for "pond" in the tooltip has been suggested and I support this change as a good way to keep the original intent of the tooltip without perpetuating a harmful myth.

Edit 2: The goal here isn't to change the tooltip because I believe anyone will take this as their only care advice. The goal is to get it changed because it is one more place telling people that "bettas live in puddles," which is so prevelent that people are often more likely to believe bad care advice over proper asvice because "everyone else says they live in puddles." This is something that is widely believed because it is repeated so often, not because it is true.

Also, whether it's exactly a betta or not, it looks a lot like one and a lot of people are drawing the connection. I understand that not everyone sees it, but a lot of people do.
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@Darksilverhawk Err.. No support for the same reason no one supports fixing the rest of the 'wrong' animal items. This is a fantasy world and nothing on here has to be the same as on earth. This is why a Common Sparrow [item=Common Sparrow] doesn't have to look like a sparrow at all and actually is a 'Stiglitz' in our world.
@Darksilverhawk

Err.. No support for the same reason no one supports fixing the rest of the 'wrong' animal items. This is a fantasy world and nothing on here has to be the same as on earth. This is why a Common Sparrow Common Sparrow doesn't have to look like a sparrow at all and actually is a 'Stiglitz' in our world.
@Darksilverhawk

The fish looks more like a mud skipper with the color and fin shape. skippers do live as the description states so i think it's fine as is.
@Darksilverhawk

The fish looks more like a mud skipper with the color and fin shape. skippers do live as the description states so i think it's fine as is.
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Since the animal isn't a beta, I think it's fine. Maybe they're using the stereotype for their own creation. Honestly, I didn't really connect one to the other because they aren't the same.
Since the animal isn't a beta, I think it's fine. Maybe they're using the stereotype for their own creation. Honestly, I didn't really connect one to the other because they aren't the same.
While I understand that the Glamortail itself isn't the same as a betta, the resemblance is close enough, and the harm that the misconception of puddle dwelling bettas is great enough (resulting in the abuse and painful deaths of animals many people consider their beloved pets), that I feel that requesting this change is still called for. I really wish this weren't a problem and we could just say "oh, it's just a magical fish, no one will take it seriously," but the fact is there are people out there who have fish or will buy fish and are constantly surrounded by the dirty puddle myth and subsequently believe it because it's so common. The Glamortails just look too much like a betta (the long tailfin and head shape are particularly evocative) for me to in good faith say "it's just a game, nobody will be influenced by this."
While I understand that the Glamortail itself isn't the same as a betta, the resemblance is close enough, and the harm that the misconception of puddle dwelling bettas is great enough (resulting in the abuse and painful deaths of animals many people consider their beloved pets), that I feel that requesting this change is still called for. I really wish this weren't a problem and we could just say "oh, it's just a magical fish, no one will take it seriously," but the fact is there are people out there who have fish or will buy fish and are constantly surrounded by the dirty puddle myth and subsequently believe it because it's so common. The Glamortails just look too much like a betta (the long tailfin and head shape are particularly evocative) for me to in good faith say "it's just a game, nobody will be influenced by this."
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i really can't see someone reading that description and going out and buying a beta and then trying to keep it in a puddle.

Why is it i ask, that an aquatics (fish) pet shop, can keep ten or twenty goldfish in a teeny tank, but i cant have 4 in a 100l tank?

ultimately, i have known goldfish to survive in large vases and teeny tanks for many years.

it is a game, IT IS NOT REAL. just because i can hurt someone in a game, doesn't mean i will hurt someone IRL...
i really can't see someone reading that description and going out and buying a beta and then trying to keep it in a puddle.

Why is it i ask, that an aquatics (fish) pet shop, can keep ten or twenty goldfish in a teeny tank, but i cant have 4 in a 100l tank?

ultimately, i have known goldfish to survive in large vases and teeny tanks for many years.

it is a game, IT IS NOT REAL. just because i can hurt someone in a game, doesn't mean i will hurt someone IRL...
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We're pretty neutral on it. If someone is going to take the description of an item that kinda looks like a betta as actual care advice then...we don't even know. They'd probably believe anything.
Maybe change it to "these diminutive fish live in shallow water." or "these diminutive fish can survive in shallow puddles." or something if it needs to be changed.

@ImGoingSpace c: Because those fish will only be in that tank until they're sold. Which shouldn't be very long. A short amount of time in a small tank watched over by an expert isn't going to do much harm. The fish you take home will live in that tank for a lot longer and will get a lot bigger which means they need more space.
Goldfish can live for around 20 years, surviving isn't the same as thriving :D
We're pretty neutral on it. If someone is going to take the description of an item that kinda looks like a betta as actual care advice then...we don't even know. They'd probably believe anything.
Maybe change it to "these diminutive fish live in shallow water." or "these diminutive fish can survive in shallow puddles." or something if it needs to be changed.

@ImGoingSpace c: Because those fish will only be in that tank until they're sold. Which shouldn't be very long. A short amount of time in a small tank watched over by an expert isn't going to do much harm. The fish you take home will live in that tank for a lot longer and will get a lot bigger which means they need more space.
Goldfish can live for around 20 years, surviving isn't the same as thriving :D
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[quote name="paradoxfox" date=2016-01-07 23:49:21]The fish looks more like a mud skipper with the color and fin shape. skippers do live as the description states so i think it's fine as is.[/quote] I also think its a fancy mud-skipper. The last line of the description "They will use their fins to propel themselves across short stretches of land" certainly sounds more mudskipper than betta. Now if the description of being a puddle dweller was on one of the crowntail items I could see changing it as those are clearly bettas [item=Crowntail Wanderer][item=Crowntail Surgling]
paradoxfox wrote on 2016-01-07:
The fish looks more like a mud skipper with the color and fin shape. skippers do live as the description states so i think it's fine as is.

I also think its a fancy mud-skipper. The last line of the description "They will use their fins to propel themselves across short stretches of land" certainly sounds more mudskipper than betta.


Now if the description of being a puddle dweller was on one of the crowntail items I could see changing it as those are clearly bettas
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I'm gonna say support just because whether people take it seriously or not from a petsite example, stereotypes about poor animal care arent okay. It's a stupid myth, too.

Also, I think itd be a really painless change to have it say"shallow ponds" or your favorite small body of water of choice. That way the point still gets across without sounding problematic.
I'm gonna say support just because whether people take it seriously or not from a petsite example, stereotypes about poor animal care arent okay. It's a stupid myth, too.

Also, I think itd be a really painless change to have it say"shallow ponds" or your favorite small body of water of choice. That way the point still gets across without sounding problematic.
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No support. People who take pet care advice from a game, especially a game like Flight Rising, are going to make poor pet care choices whether or not a tooltip from an item they may or may not encounter exists.
No support. People who take pet care advice from a game, especially a game like Flight Rising, are going to make poor pet care choices whether or not a tooltip from an item they may or may not encounter exists.
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