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TOPIC | brewable 'level up' potion?
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being able to brew a 'potion' (consumable item) that you can use on 1 dragon or hatchling, to increase their level by one point. aka dragon rare candy brew cost/time is debatable; i suggest a smaller, yet still significant treasure fee (~50,000t) and an excessive brew time (~3-5 days). i feel the recipe should be a mid-level craft and not so much a high-level one. reasoning why i wanted to suggest this: - to be completely honest i just wanted a way to level up eternal youth dragons without having to un-permababy them and back again. whether or not others find that useful is something i question but i would like to adjust the levels of my permababies for personal/lore reasons - players could use them to assist in skipping a leveling venue that could be particularly difficult, or use them to finish up max leveling, as they would be useful for when one level requires the most experience - possibly increase coliseum entry for newer players; a cute idea i had was flights offer level potion 'bundles' in raffles or newbie packs to get them started faster on dragon max leveling for Dom benefits balancing: treasure cost, brew time, recipe level need to be adjusted so level potions cannot be utilized to be a replacement or staple for coliseum leveling. also i think the cost of leveling services should be taken into consideration. players who offer this type of business, input on how you think it would effect your end would be appreciated! feel free to discuss whatever you think i missed! thank you for reading. [emoji=nocturne happy size=1]
being able to brew a 'potion' (consumable item) that you can use on 1 dragon or hatchling, to increase their level by one point. aka dragon rare candy

brew cost/time is debatable; i suggest a smaller, yet still significant treasure fee (~50,000t) and an excessive brew time (~3-5 days). i feel the recipe should be a mid-level craft and not so much a high-level one.

reasoning why i wanted to suggest this:

- to be completely honest i just wanted a way to level up eternal youth dragons without having to un-permababy them and back again. whether or not others find that useful is something i question but i would like to adjust the levels of my permababies for personal/lore reasons

- players could use them to assist in skipping a leveling venue that could be particularly difficult, or use them to finish up max leveling, as they would be useful for when one level requires the most experience

- possibly increase coliseum entry for newer players; a cute idea i had was flights offer level potion 'bundles' in raffles or newbie packs to get them started faster on dragon max leveling for Dom benefits

balancing:

treasure cost, brew time, recipe level need to be adjusted so level potions cannot be utilized to be a replacement or staple for coliseum leveling. also i think the cost of leveling services should be taken into consideration. players who offer this type of business, input on how you think it would effect your end would be appreciated!

feel free to discuss whatever you think i missed! thank you for reading.
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Practically, these would only be used by people going from lvl 24 to lvl 25 since that takes the most time/effort.

I know there are already LOADS of programs to help newbies get going, including things like free lvl 10 dragons and loans of lvl 25 trainers.

If the treasure cost, brew time, and recipe level are balanced to prevent these being used as a replacement for coli, they need to be balanced for 158,942 xp, the amount of xp from level 24 to 25. That's almost 130 Mire battles, according to an estimate I found. If the cost is balanced for that, will it be cheap enough to be useful for skipping a low level venue or for regularly handing out to newbies, particularly when options already exist for those things?

This might make more sense as a permabab-only thing. I don't know anything about permababies or how reverting them works, but perhaps it just needs to be permababy only and then balanced to make it not worthwhile to baby-unbaby a dragon just to go from 24 to 25?
Practically, these would only be used by people going from lvl 24 to lvl 25 since that takes the most time/effort.

I know there are already LOADS of programs to help newbies get going, including things like free lvl 10 dragons and loans of lvl 25 trainers.

If the treasure cost, brew time, and recipe level are balanced to prevent these being used as a replacement for coli, they need to be balanced for 158,942 xp, the amount of xp from level 24 to 25. That's almost 130 Mire battles, according to an estimate I found. If the cost is balanced for that, will it be cheap enough to be useful for skipping a low level venue or for regularly handing out to newbies, particularly when options already exist for those things?

This might make more sense as a permabab-only thing. I don't know anything about permababies or how reverting them works, but perhaps it just needs to be permababy only and then balanced to make it not worthwhile to baby-unbaby a dragon just to go from 24 to 25?
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I'd think it makes less sense as a permababy-only thing because that kills the point of levelling a dragon. I get aesthetics, I do it myself when I have permababies (train before fun-sizing), but in the vast majority of cases, the dragon you want to level is an adult.

That said, yes... while the idea is okay, it would have to keep in mind the higher levels and not the lower ones, and the item would end up filling a very specific niche - so it won't be that useful to new players unless they brew it themselves. The implementation is cogent of this, though, and I like that. Making it mainly time cost instead of cash-cost is clever, since that's the gate on levels anyway, and it's more advantageous to get in the coli and do it that way.

A brew that applies flat experience to a dragon could be a different take on the idea, but has similar problems - either you can use one to turn fresh fodder into yeet material instantly (albeit probably not in a cost-effective way) or you'd need a bunch of these to make any headway in the 20-25 area.
I'd think it makes less sense as a permababy-only thing because that kills the point of levelling a dragon. I get aesthetics, I do it myself when I have permababies (train before fun-sizing), but in the vast majority of cases, the dragon you want to level is an adult.

That said, yes... while the idea is okay, it would have to keep in mind the higher levels and not the lower ones, and the item would end up filling a very specific niche - so it won't be that useful to new players unless they brew it themselves. The implementation is cogent of this, though, and I like that. Making it mainly time cost instead of cash-cost is clever, since that's the gate on levels anyway, and it's more advantageous to get in the coli and do it that way.

A brew that applies flat experience to a dragon could be a different take on the idea, but has similar problems - either you can use one to turn fresh fodder into yeet material instantly (albeit probably not in a cost-effective way) or you'd need a bunch of these to make any headway in the 20-25 area.
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There's a couple ways to make "dragon candy" work. The first is specific candies per level (each level to level gain is a specific candy with its own Baldwin level, ingredients, cost and time) or experience points (single recipe or multiple recipes with increased ingredients/cost/time as they give more experience).

Either of those addresses the concerns brought about by the nearly exponential experience needed per level.

As far as taking dragon training prices into consideration the math for that is based on the exalt payout price/exalt fodder cost/experience confluence:
Quote:
L25: 1,363,652 experience
Exalt fodder floor of 7k (adjust as fodder costs change). Approximate number of dragons to reach that amount of experience as some is lost to overflow:

L10 = 8,750 net profit x 19.5 = 170,625
L9 = 7,250 net profit x 28.3 = 205,175
L8 = 5,750 net profit x 42.4 = 243,800
L7 = 4,250 net profit x 67 = 284,750
L6 = 2,750 net profit x 130 = 357,500
L5 = 1,250 net profit x 250 =312,500

As far as I can tell the ideal uses for this sort of thing are perma babies, progens and dragons too expensive/rare to send to a trainer (at least until we have secure dragon lending).

I'm meh on the suggestion itself but it's definitely a workable one.

Odds are good that whichever way something like this gets added to the site the most commonly used recipes will either be the highest experience quantities and whatever gets people from L11-12 to L17. That's the point where poor stat decisions that were survivable in the Scorched Forest are no longer tolerable.
There's a couple ways to make "dragon candy" work. The first is specific candies per level (each level to level gain is a specific candy with its own Baldwin level, ingredients, cost and time) or experience points (single recipe or multiple recipes with increased ingredients/cost/time as they give more experience).

Either of those addresses the concerns brought about by the nearly exponential experience needed per level.

As far as taking dragon training prices into consideration the math for that is based on the exalt payout price/exalt fodder cost/experience confluence:
Quote:
L25: 1,363,652 experience
Exalt fodder floor of 7k (adjust as fodder costs change). Approximate number of dragons to reach that amount of experience as some is lost to overflow:

L10 = 8,750 net profit x 19.5 = 170,625
L9 = 7,250 net profit x 28.3 = 205,175
L8 = 5,750 net profit x 42.4 = 243,800
L7 = 4,250 net profit x 67 = 284,750
L6 = 2,750 net profit x 130 = 357,500
L5 = 1,250 net profit x 250 =312,500

As far as I can tell the ideal uses for this sort of thing are perma babies, progens and dragons too expensive/rare to send to a trainer (at least until we have secure dragon lending).

I'm meh on the suggestion itself but it's definitely a workable one.

Odds are good that whichever way something like this gets added to the site the most commonly used recipes will either be the highest experience quantities and whatever gets people from L11-12 to L17. That's the point where poor stat decisions that were survivable in the Scorched Forest are no longer tolerable.
I want to live in Theory. Everything works there.

Have you checked the Gem MP for Gene and Breed scrolls before buying an AH listing from me ending in 5g?
So, honestly I think this could be super handy, though yeah, niche market and maybe hard to balance.
I've got several permababies that are leveled to 25 (and any future ones that get EY'd will be fully leveled as well) and one at 13. I'm kinda ok with the 13 staying where he's at, but it's going to REALLY bother me if we ever get an expansion on the coli that raises the max level beyond 25 and leaves my other little guys behind.

Personally I'd also be ok with a temporary "un-baby" brew or whatever, that gives you say 48-72 hours of adult-ness (not long enough to breed) to take them back to the coli and level them up. Because I'm not ever going to be willing to pay an additional 550g just to adjust the level on a permababy.
But maybe the coliseum will never go any higher and that's a non-issue.

Edit: and this could be a nice thing for people who CAN'T coli as well but want to have leveled dragons for lore/aesthetic purposes, gives a DIY alternative option to it instead of having to rely on other players for leveling services -which have the usual trading risks and aren't possible for some dragons.
So, honestly I think this could be super handy, though yeah, niche market and maybe hard to balance.
I've got several permababies that are leveled to 25 (and any future ones that get EY'd will be fully leveled as well) and one at 13. I'm kinda ok with the 13 staying where he's at, but it's going to REALLY bother me if we ever get an expansion on the coli that raises the max level beyond 25 and leaves my other little guys behind.

Personally I'd also be ok with a temporary "un-baby" brew or whatever, that gives you say 48-72 hours of adult-ness (not long enough to breed) to take them back to the coli and level them up. Because I'm not ever going to be willing to pay an additional 550g just to adjust the level on a permababy.
But maybe the coliseum will never go any higher and that's a non-issue.

Edit: and this could be a nice thing for people who CAN'T coli as well but want to have leveled dragons for lore/aesthetic purposes, gives a DIY alternative option to it instead of having to rely on other players for leveling services -which have the usual trading risks and aren't possible for some dragons.
Not to be That Guy but wouldn't allowing EY'd dragons in the coli possibly be a more workable solution?
Not to be That Guy but wouldn't allowing EY'd dragons in the coli possibly be a more workable solution?
[quote name="@Bionicdingo" date="2019-10-31 14:06:28" ] Not to be That Guy but wouldn't allowing EY'd dragons in the coli possibly be a more workable solution? [/quote] Yeah, but some people go completely [b]ballistic [/b] whenever it's brought up. Because letting EY dragons in the coli is the same as advocating the use of child soldiers in real life apparently. :/
@Bionicdingo wrote on 2019-10-31 14:06:28:
Not to be That Guy but wouldn't allowing EY'd dragons in the coli possibly be a more workable solution?

Yeah, but some people go completely ballistic whenever it's brought up. Because letting EY dragons in the coli is the same as advocating the use of child soldiers in real life apparently. :/
i like the idea of dragon rare candy, assuming it takes an appropriate amount of investment so you can't 'brew' levelled fodder. sure it's a bit niche, but it'd be great for progens/permababies/etc. and giveaways or even roundsey prizes
i like the idea of dragon rare candy, assuming it takes an appropriate amount of investment so you can't 'brew' levelled fodder. sure it's a bit niche, but it'd be great for progens/permababies/etc. and giveaways or even roundsey prizes
If balance is the problem, could a work-around be having different rarities of “candies”? Being that the cheapest will level your dragon up one, but can’t be used to level a dragon higher than a certain level, and the most expensive will level your dragon one level per “potion” from, for example, level22 up.

Ex.
Increase a level 1-10 by one: Less expensive
Increase a level 10-20 by one: More expensive
Increase a level 20-25 by one: Most expensive

Something like that (adjusting as needed to balance experience/cost, of course)
If balance is the problem, could a work-around be having different rarities of “candies”? Being that the cheapest will level your dragon up one, but can’t be used to level a dragon higher than a certain level, and the most expensive will level your dragon one level per “potion” from, for example, level22 up.

Ex.
Increase a level 1-10 by one: Less expensive
Increase a level 10-20 by one: More expensive
Increase a level 20-25 by one: Most expensive

Something like that (adjusting as needed to balance experience/cost, of course)
Have each candy give x amount of experience. Perhaps even introduce a few candy options. For example 500 exp for a ‘cheap candy’, 1000 exp for a ‘candy’ and 2500 exp for a ‘fancy candy’ The higher the level the more candies required to reach next level. Yes it would take a lot of fancy candies to level from 0 to 25 but it shouldn’t be easy. Cost would have to be enough using candies to level fodder wouldn’t be profitable
Have each candy give x amount of experience. Perhaps even introduce a few candy options. For example 500 exp for a ‘cheap candy’, 1000 exp for a ‘candy’ and 2500 exp for a ‘fancy candy’ The higher the level the more candies required to reach next level. Yes it would take a lot of fancy candies to level from 0 to 25 but it shouldn’t be easy. Cost would have to be enough using candies to level fodder wouldn’t be profitable
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