Suggestions

You can get your thread deleted if people just post "support" with no context, but not all threads really require much more context in a response than "this sounds like a good idea". Since the mods understandably don't want spam on threads, can we implement an upvote / downvote system for this forum? It doesn't have to bump the thread, in fact it shouldn't, and it should be anonymous, but it should provide something of a voice for the silent majority. My notes: [list][*]Only on the suggestions forum [*]Only the first post in a thread (or like, the thread as a whole) [*]Anonymous [*]Possibly only visible to mods? So you can't see how upvoted/downvoted a post is, only the mods/devs can [*]Wouldn't affect the relative position in the forums-- forum is still ordered by time [/list] Maybe downvoting would require you to post a response as well to downvote? So you have to explain why you [i]don't[/i] want something. [size=2]I'm subscribed don't ping me[/size]

A thread won't be deleted with just support or no support, the support or no support reply could be deleted but the thread itself won't.

An upvote/downvote for the suggestion forums defeats the purpose behind the rule against a support or no support without context. The reason the rule against support/no support was added is because the admins want discussion to find out why a suggestion is supported or not. This discussion can take an idea that is not acceptable to many in its current form to something that could work. This discussion can also give admins insight on what players want, outside of the context of a particular suggestion

In addition an upvote/downvote implies that popularity of a suggestion will affect if it will be added or not. Another issue with an upvote/downvote is that it doesn't work well for multipart suggestions or suggestions that evolved over time

Are you suggesting that the devs change how they use the forum, to see it more like an election or a popularity contest?

The problem with this is that staff don’t implement suggestions based on popularity, and the whole reason only “support” or “no support” isn’t allowed is because users are supposed to debate/discuss an idea- which this would discourage (especially if the “reasons I don’t want this” was only visible to mods/staff)

[quote]A thread won't be deleted with just support or no support, the support or no support reply could be deleted but the thread itself won't.[/quote] Ahh my bad. [quote]An upvote/downvote for the suggestion forums defeats the purpose behind the rule against a support or no support without context. The reason the rule against support/no support was added is because the admins want discussion to find out why a suggestion is supported or not. [/quote] I interpreted the rule as trying to reduce spam which buries useful discussion, rather than a rule that encourages discussion. From my perspective, there's people who would just say "support" and adding this button stops them from doing that and removes spam. [quote]This discussion can take an idea that is not acceptable to many in its current form to something that could work. This discussion can also give admins insight on what players want, outside of the context of a particular suggestion[/quote] I fully agree that discussion is important. This button would be in addition to discussion, not instead of it. [quote]In addition an upvote/downvote implies that popularity of a suggestion will affect if it will be added or not.[/quote] This is fair, it does indeed. On the other hand, it is just another point of data the devs can take into account when implementing ideas. I'm not at all proposing they do some kind of "anything that reaches 100 upvotes hits Undel's desk" petition type thing at all. [quote]Another issue with an upvote/downvote is that it doesn't work well for multipart suggestions or suggestions that evolved over time[/quote] Most suggestion threads that I've seen have been condensed into one thread? I don't know if i've seen any stretching across threads. But that would indeed be an issue, if there were multi-thread posts. With posts that change over time (eg maybe started as a bad idea, but evolved into a good one) I think the devs being able to see votes over time would be a good solution to that. So maybe a suggestion is only 50% upvoted overall, but 90% upvoted over the last week? @DragonSage Thank you so much for your response

[quote name="@LordJeanliness" date="2020-07-12 10:13:17" ] Are you suggesting that the devs change how they use the forum, to see it more like an election or a popularity contest? [/quote] I feel like the popularity contest angle can be minimized by making the voting invisible to everyone but the devs. It would simply be another way for them to collect data on suggestions. It would also be a way for anyone uncomfortable with posting to contribute to the development of the site.

[quote name="Shinyumbreon" date="2020-07-12 10:15:15" ] The problem with this is that staff don’t implement suggestions based on popularity, and the whole reason only “support” or “no support” isn’t allowed is because users are supposed to debate/discuss an idea- which this would discourage (especially if the “reasons I don’t want this” was only visible to mods/staff) [/quote] Ah I should clarify in the op that the downvote post would be visible to everyone, it would just only be clear to the devs that it was accompanied by a downvote instead of just a normal post. But that if they specifically aren't implementing stuff based on popularity, then this is indeed a useless data point, I just didn't know that.

I think that this would create more troubles that it would solve.

For example, a thread has at the same time +1000 upvotes and four pages of posts outlining various problems: what should be done about that particular suggestion:
A) Ignore the four pages of issues because 1000 people said yes?
B) Dash the hopes of 1000 people who thought they were in the majority because there are four pages of issues?

The reasonable way would probably be to meet somewhere in the middle... but where is the middle if most of the people just press a button?

[quote name="@RedWillia" date="2020-07-12 10:26:31" ] I think that this would create more troubles that it would solve. For example, a thread has at the same time +1000 upvotes and four pages of posts outlining various problems: what should be done about that particular suggestion: A) Ignore the four pages of issues because 1000 people said yes? B) Dash the hopes of 1000 people who thought they were in the majority because there are four pages of issues? The reasonable way would probably be to meet somewhere in the middle... but where is the middle if most of the people just press a button? [/quote] If the devs thought it was an idea they were serious about implementing, they could take everything from the forum and either discuss it themselves or create a new devpost asking the community about it. I'm not saying that it should be a petition process, I'm simply saying that if you think an idea is good and whole in itself, you should be able to upvote it instead of just... not responding at all to the forum as though you never read it.